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  1. #4801
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Only one? 'cause.... they kinda have potential replacements for the others too.
    Batman has even more and they always fall through.

  2. #4802
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I believe THEY believe it, definitely.
    This.

    DC might be foolish enough to believe that Clark can be replaced forever, but if that's true then the company is in serious trouble; who'd be foolish enough to think that this industry and this market would support a permanent replacement? It'd be understandable from a new fan who hasn't been around long enough to see how things work but professionals? Even if they're not familiar with the market when they're hired on, this isn't some deeply buried secret, they should have figured this much out just doing some basic due diligence.

    If Jon's sales are as bad as I've heard I bet people at DC are running panicked trying to course correct.

    In any case, Jon was always better suited to the OGN, book store market. He can appeal to the "Beast Boy Loves Raven" and shohen fans in a way us curmudgeonly old bastard Wednesday Warriors won't ever warm up to.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  3. #4803
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    In any case, Jon was always better suited to the OGN, book store market. He can appeal to the "Beast Boy Loves Raven" and shohen fans in a way us curmudgeonly old bastard Wednesday Warriors won't ever warm up to.
    I don't think Jon falls into the "shounen" category. The Jon character pre-Bendis/Taylor is what you would call a shounen protaganist, which is why the character was popular and for reasons that escape everyone DC decided to destroy the character. If the character is bombing just say it wasn't the real Jon. It was just an imposter and the real kid Jon is being held in space and needs rescuing. The imposter Jon didn't know he was a fake and dies saving the real Jon. Boom, problem solved.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 01-29-2022 at 12:04 PM. Reason: No one will miss the character.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  4. #4804
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Nah, definitely don't need the plot where Clark and Lois were raising a fake son all this time and the poor fake is now floating around.

    Use Mister Mxyzptlk to reset Jon back to his childhood

  5. #4805
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Nah, definitely don't need the plot where Clark and Lois were raising a fake son all this time and the poor fake is now floating around.

    Use Mister Mxyzptlk to reset Jon back to his childhood
    That's not what I meant. Everything we see prior to Jon being given to his grandfather is the real Jon. At some point he was replaced. Everything after that is fake Jon. It was just an imposter and the real kid Jon is in suspended animation and is being held in space and needs rescuing. The imposter Jon didn't know he was a fake and dies saving the real Jon. Boom, problem solved.

    Then we focus on..
    Who would do this?
    When did the switch happen?
    Where did it happen?
    How did it happen?

    It's much easier that way. Bringing in Mxyzptlk only complicates things further. Remember we are looking for a complete clean break from this incarnation of the character and a return to the incarnation of the character everyone liked.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  6. #4806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    That's not what I meant. Everything we see prior to Jon being given to his grandfather is the real Jon. At some point he was replaced. Everything after that is fake Jon. It was just an imposter and the real kid Jon is in suspended animation and is being held in space and needs rescuing. The imposter Jon didn't know he was a fake and dies saving the real Jon. Boom, problem solved.

    Then we focus on..
    Who would do this?
    When did the switch happen?
    Where did it happen?
    How did it happen?

    It's much easier that way. Bringing in Mxyzptlk only complicates things further. Remember we are looking for a complete clean break from this incarnation of the character and a return to the incarnation of the character everyone liked.
    Ohhh, this is far too similar to Spider-Man's Clone Saga.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  7. #4807
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Ohhh, this is far too similar to Spider-Man's Clone Saga.
    The Clone Saga was the answer to a problem that didn't exist. I'm betting that everyone will be so happy to have the real Jon back that they will accept it.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  8. #4808
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    That's not what I meant. Everything we see prior to Jon being given to his grandfather is the real Jon. At some point he was replaced. Everything after that is fake Jon. It was just an imposter and the real kid Jon is in suspended animation and is being held in space and needs rescuing. The imposter Jon didn't know he was a fake and dies saving the real Jon. Boom, problem solved.

    Then we focus on..
    Who would do this?
    When did the switch happen?
    Where did it happen?
    How did it happen?

    It's much easier that way. Bringing in Mxyzptlk only complicates things further. Remember we are looking for a complete clean break from this incarnation of the character and a return to the incarnation of the character everyone liked.
    Yeah and the teenage son Lois and Clark love right now is an imposter and dies. We don't need that trauma.

    Mister Mxyzptlk doesn't complicate things unless you want him to. He can change Jon back into a kid simply because he wants to for fun, or because Jon wants to get back the years he lost, or because Clark and Lois do, or because the timeline is in danger with time shenanigans.

    And the change can either close all the plot threads or create many new ones, it's up to the writer.

    Any other explanation just creates way too much baggage

  9. #4809

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Is this really controversial?
    To some people it is. Especially when people want a Superman movie more in the vein of Injustice or Brightburn.

  10. #4810
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Yeah and the teenage son Lois and Clark love right now is an imposter and dies. We don't need that trauma.

    Mister Mxyzptlk doesn't complicate things unless you want him to. He can change Jon back into a kid simply because he wants to for fun, or because Jon wants to get back the years he lost, or because Clark and Lois do, or because the timeline is in danger with time shenanigans.

    And the change can either close all the plot threads or create many new ones, it's up to the writer.

    Any other explanation just creates way too much baggage
    If Mxyzptlk does it everyone will spend their time trying to reverse it. Jon won't ask to be a kid again. Clark and Lois will never do that and timeline stuff opens a whole other can of worms. The imposter angle just works best IMHO. The slate gets wiped clean and imposter Jon and all his life experiences die with him. Kid Jon returns from suspended animation.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  11. #4811
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Only one? 'cause.... they kinda have potential replacements for the others too.
    And they wouldn't be permanent either.

  12. #4812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    To some people it is. Especially when people want a Superman movie more in the vein of Injustice or Brightburn.
    Those people don't want Superman to be like Batman. They want Superman to be like Homelander or the Plutonian.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 01-30-2022 at 02:56 AM.

  13. #4813
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    I don't think Jon falls into the "shounen" category. The Jon character pre-Bendis/Taylor is what you would call a shounen protaganist
    That's what I was talking about. The great thing about those OGN's is that they don't have to follow any continuity. Teen Jon can be a thing in the main titles while kid!Jon runs around in OGN's designed for markets that he can thrive in. And the main books, ongoings or mini's, can always do flashback stories of kid!Jon too, obviously.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #4814
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It baffles me that anyone thinks a member of the Trinity will be permanently replaced.
    I don’t know man, of the three Clark is the weak link.

    Batman is singlehandedly keeping DC alive comicswise, the Nolan Trilogy are some of the most iconic superhero films ever, he has another big blockbuster movie on the way, is the main star of the widely successful Arkham and Injustice franchises, Keaton will be cameoing in other peoples movies going forward, there’s a new cartoon which Timm is heading on the way, and his wider Mythos is more popular than the rest of DC.

    Wonder Woman had a successful 21st century movie (putting the mixed reception of the sequel aside), a video game coming from Monolith which is likely to be good and only increase the popularity of her wider mythos, and she has another WW movie coming aside from Gal likely going to take over leadership of the JL and cameo in other peoples movies. Assuming no major missteps I think WW will be taking Superman’s spot as the #2 character at DC.

    Meanwhile Superman has S&L (which is great but is just a CW show), a cartoon (which looks great and is something I’m most excited about), his comics are currently excellent, and I am hopeful about the rumored CoIE animated trilogy that’s supposedly coming in 2023. However WB clearly does not have any faith in him, they would rather take a gamble on racebending him to be black than give Cavill another shot at a solo even though they are giving Gadot and Margot multiple chances. That tells me they don’t think that Superman has any appeal unless they do some stunt casting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    This.

    DC might be foolish enough to believe that Clark can be replaced forever, but if that's true then the company is in serious trouble; who'd be foolish enough to think that this industry and this market would support a permanent replacement? It'd be understandable from a new fan who hasn't been around long enough to see how things work but professionals? Even if they're not familiar with the market when they're hired on, this isn't some deeply buried secret, they should have figured this much out just doing some basic due diligence.

    If Jon's sales are as bad as I've heard I bet people at DC are running panicked trying to course correct.

    In any case, Jon was always better suited to the OGN, book store market. He can appeal to the "Beast Boy Loves Raven" and shohen fans in a way us curmudgeonly old bastard Wednesday Warriors won't ever warm up to.
    If his sales are bad than Clark is fucked because his sales are worse despite his book being fantastic. Only people I’ve seen say Jon is a flop is the CG crowd. Really at this point it’s mostly a matter of “who will be Clark’s successor?” rather than “will it happen?”. Major productions are being made with people other than Clark Kent as we know him meant to star as Superman. I don’t think Clark will ever fade away, but I do think he will have to share his mantle with others, and I’m mixed about that. There’s some I love, but others I detest and I am disappointed that we won’t get that one big success with Clark the way the Marvel characters, Batman, WW, or Aquaman have gotten.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  15. #4815
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Yeah, the major pushback I've seen is largely from A) the ComicsGate crowd or B) "True" Jon fans, both of which have vested interests in seeing teen Jon Kent fail, and neither have inspired much confidence in their ability to be impartial with data, so take this with a shaker of salt.


    Superman as an IP is in a transitional phase right now. As fans, we're worried about the outcome but the end result is that Superman has to change, not only because of the time but also the hands holding him.

    New fans love to see mantle changes because they think it's progression, not realizing it's going to be walked back like it's been every time before them. They're here looking for manga progression in a market that does not move the way manga does. They're entirely different beasts. One is meant to tell a story and end, the other is meant to tell serialized stories about specific characters. For that reason, I don't see Jon ever being permanent and I don't think the powers that be truly think he's Superman forever. This is a pump and dump. They're going to run as far as they can with Jon and then bring Clark back in full force when Jon has run his course, essentially building anticipation back while addressing an underserved market by their estimation. I fully expect to see lots of buzz words around when Clark gets to be Superman proper again, lots of "the original is still the best" or something.
    May we never forget:

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    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

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