Controversial Superman Opinions

[Jon Clark]

If this is about Flashes, no. Supes, and the two characters that equal and/or rival him, got there first with their concepts as compared to what Flash creators were going for. Can the Flashes of speedforce users use superspeed in more versatile ways because that IS their specialty? That is a reasonable concession.

I've always thought that the ability to vibrate through solid objects, for example, should be an exclusively a Flash/Speed Force thing. Kryptonians can't do that.

Superman can travel through time and cross dimensions the same as Barry or Wally. The Flashes can snap back to their home time easier and can recognize parallel dimensions by vibrational rate easier.

I don't even mind the Flashes being faster. But I do mind the scale of difference. Stuff like Barry leaving Superman in the dust ("The other races were for charity") shouldn't be the norm. In a short race Barry is always just ahead of Superman and no one except another speedster should be able to perceive the difference. In a race around the planet it might be a matter of inches. But without a way to distract Superman Barry shouldn't be fast enough for Superman to lose sight of him.

[yolo_dude]

I've always thought that the ability to vibrate through solid objects, for example, should be an exclusively a Flash/Speed Force thing. Kryptonians can't do that.

Superman can travel through time and cross dimensions the same as Barry or Wally. The Flashes can snap back to their home time easier and can recognize parallel dimensions by vibrational rate easier.

I don't even mind the Flashes being faster. But I do mind the scale of difference. Stuff like Barry leaving Superman in the dust ("The other races were for charity") shouldn't be the norm. In a short race Barry is always just ahead of Superman and no one except another speedster should be able to perceive the difference. In a race around the planet it might be a matter of inches. But without a way to distract Superman Barry shouldn't be fast enough for Superman to lose sight of him.

I've always believed that members of the Superman family (Clark, Kara, Jon) and all Kryptonians should be 90% as fast as members of the Flash family.
Basically Superman's acceleration, limitless speed, reflexes, are a little bit below that of the Flash, wherein Clark has to put in more effort or concentration in performing his speed feats compared to Barry. But generally can do the vast majority of what the Flash can do.

[JAK]

That's about where Superman is - funny enough, this even says Superman is the fastest when flying.
FastestChars.jpg

[llozymandias]

That's about where Superman is - funny enough, this even says Superman is the fastest when flying.
FastestChars.jpg

I have read this as well. Funny how some people ignore the part about Superman being faster than any speedster when he is flying.

[Jon Clark]

That's about where Superman is - funny enough, this even says Superman is the fastest when flying.
FastestChars.jpg

That's be great if DC actually had anyone keeping track of such things. But that chart was something put out and probably disregarded 1 second after it was published. And having Kid Flash that far down the chart from Barry and Wally is even worse than having the Flashes outclass Superman as much as they would a normal person.

[Jim Kelly]

Today's controversial Superman opinion is that he eclipses nearly all other superpowered beings in physical power (strength and speed)

I guess it's a controversial opinion because it was never true. Jerry Siegel went ahead and created the Spectre (with Bernard Bailey). And that was in 1940, when Superman was not as powerful as he would become. But Spectre always was the more powerful of the two on account of the God connection. So Jerry deliberately made a hero that was more powerful than the other hero he had made.

He SHOULD out class everyone in strength, but not speed.

Why not speed? This seems arbitrary and just intended to give the Speedsters a leg up. I think Barry Allen would say "Don't do me any favours. I don't need your pity."

Whenever this stuff comes up, I have to point out that speed makes very little sense in the comic book universe. They go beyond the speed of light which breaks the rules of our universe. What measure are you using for speed when light travelling at the speed 670,616,629 m.p.h. has no meaning?

All the Green Lanterns are faster than Barry and Wally because they have rings that can warp them through space in the blink of an eye. Even if you think that the Flash family can warp on Earth--since they can't fly, they wouldn't be able to go anywhere else in space. Well actually, if they time travelled within the same point in space, they'd end up in airless space, because the Earth would no longer be there, having travelled further through the cosmos.

[Jon Clark]

I guess it's a controversial opinion because it was never true. Jerry Siegel went ahead and created the Spectre (with Bernard Bailey). And that was in 1940, when Superman was not as powerful as he would become. But Spectre always was the more powerful of the two on account of the God connection. So Jerry deliberately made a hero that was more powerful than the other hero he had made.



Why not speed? This seems arbitrary and just intended to give the Speedsters a leg up. I think Barry Allen would say "Don't do me any favours. I don't need your pity."

Whenever this stuff comes up, I have to point out that speed makes very little sense in the comic book universe. They go beyond the speed of light which breaks the rules of our universe. What measure are you using for speed when light travelling at the speed 670,616,629 m.p.h. has no meaning?

All the Green Lanterns are faster than Barry and Wally because they have rings that can warp them through space in the blink of an eye. Even if you think that the Flash family can warp on Earth--since they can't fly, they wouldn't be able to go anywhere else in space. Well actually, if they time travelled within the same point in space, they'd end up in airless space, because the Earth would no longer be there, having travelled further through the cosmos.

Warping place to place gets you there faster but isn't speed in the same way that Nightcrawler is faster than Quicksilver Kurt or Hal can get from point A to Point B in less time but neither is going to catch a bullet after it has left a gun,

[Jim Kelly]

Warping place to place gets you there faster but isn't speed in the same way that Nightcrawler is faster than Quicksilver Kurt or Hal can get from point A to Point B in less time but neither is going to catch a bullet after it has left a gun,

This also seems arbitary. And it's one of those things that seems true but isn't really in our physical universe. In relativity theory, we all move through space-time and we all warp space-time as we move. It's just not apparent to us most of the time. But satellites in orbit around the Earth have to adjust their clocks to account for time dilation--because time moves at a different rate for them than it does for us on the ground.

Whenever one accelerates through one axis of time-space, the other axes of time-space are warped. You're essentially stretching one dimension and compressing another. Of course, this is problematic for a story about speedsters and the writers just ignore the physical changes that would result if these guys were really moving at these speeds. Hal, on the other hand that wears the ring, warps space so that he's outside of normal space-time, so then the writers don't have to worry about making any sense. Of course, the Speed Force is the same alchemy--it's another way of letting Barry and Wally step outside of normal space-time so they can perform impossible feats.

[marhawkman]

I guess it's a controversial opinion because it was never true. Jerry Siegel went ahead and created the Spectre (with Bernard Bailey). And that was in 1940, when Superman was not as powerful as he would become. But Spectre always was the more powerful of the two on account of the God connection. So Jerry deliberately made a hero that was more powerful than the other hero he had made.



Why not speed? This seems arbitrary and just intended to give the Speedsters a leg up. I think Barry Allen would say "Don't do me any favours. I don't need your pity."

Whenever this stuff comes up, I have to point out that speed makes very little sense in the comic book universe. They go beyond the speed of light which breaks the rules of our universe. What measure are you using for speed when light travelling at the speed 670,616,629 m.p.h. has no meaning?

All the Green Lanterns are faster than Barry and Wally because they have rings that can warp them through space in the blink of an eye. Even if you think that the Flash family can warp on Earth--since they can't fly, they wouldn't be able to go anywhere else in space. Well actually, if they time travelled within the same point in space, they'd end up in airless space, because the Earth would no longer be there, having travelled further through the cosmos.

I personally think that Livewire should be someone you need to be as fast as a Kryptonian to keep up with... And thus someone even a Flash should need to work at.

[Stanlos]

I've always thought that the ability to vibrate through solid objects, for example, should be an exclusively a Flash/Speed Force thing. Kryptonians can't do that.

Superman can travel through time and cross dimensions the same as Barry or Wally. The Flashes can snap back to their home time easier and can recognize parallel dimensions by vibrational rate easier.

I don't even mind the Flashes being faster. But I do mind the scale of difference. Stuff like Barry leaving Superman in the dust ("The other races were for charity") shouldn't be the norm. In a short race Barry is always just ahead of Superman and no one except another speedster should be able to perceive the difference. In a race around the planet it might be a matter of inches. But without a way to distract Superman Barry shouldn't be fast enough for Superman to lose sight of him.

Why not? Supes has done that numerous times. The Wonder Woman did it frequently throughout her Pre-Crisis run. Cap is is mystical in form and while I don't immediately call to mind examples of him doing so his powerset would not preclude that ability.

[Stanlos]

That's about where Superman is - funny enough, this even says Superman is the fastest when flying.
FastestChars.jpg

Bless Williamson but the only saving grace for this list is that it is talking about Running. Both Supes and Wondy in-story (Pre-Stupid) were defined as much faster when in flight. The old Captain Marvel used to wield the speed of the actual God of Speed so his placement on this list illicits a LOLgasm from me.

[Cyberstrike]

A soldier as president would have that as background..he would still be a solider.He would carry that value system.Also,arthur was meant to pass "worthy" test and became pinnacle knight material..They are all kings if you are going by that. arthur curry?king..hal jordan?worthy of the ring..king.Clark becoming a master from a loyal servant ain't better for me.

Clark doesn't..but,he does get tripped up by green rocks and red light.

How did clark win that fight?

clark lost bigtime from where i stand.He did what he should have,stay out of bruce's way.
in fact that wink to robin at the end felt like genuine deal superman..not a knight...but, a gladiator who was freed by a dark knight/ronin.It was the mark out moment for me.Superman felt himself as beat up,swollen and somewhat dirty dude(glasses and all)


It is fundamentally something that turned my head around concepts and lens used by writers till date in superman stories..This savior figure(condescending) fix humanity and lead it like a bunch of sheep.A knight(white knight in dkr's case) who is actually two face.That's what superman feels like to me.Even when the guy is good.It feels icky in a bad way for me.

People didn't get cynical.Superman writers are nostalgic for outdated concepts.

Because the fight was faked to fool President Regan. Hell Superman could've easily killed Bruce when heat visioned when he asked "Where?" in Bruce's garden. Plus Superman knew Bruce was alive and chose to let him go underground and build his army. The one with the outdated concept is you. Frankly I'm sick of Miller's version of Batman it's makes Batman at best into a fascist and worse a sociopath murdering fascist. I think Batman: Year One, Batman: Hush, and Batman: The Long Halloween are boring stories with stellar artwork and Batman: Killing Joke just flat sucks. The Dark Knight Returns is over rated and is outdated as hell.


So how about this controversial opinion: How about a Superman and Batman live action movie as friends who occasionally disagree but respect each other and see each other as equals and save the world together as the World's Finest? Not trying to "beat" each other up to fool a president or over ideologies, philosophies, or whatever convoluted nonsense Lex was doing in BvS in that mess.

[Agent Z]

This also seems arbitary. And it's one of those things that seems true but isn't really in our physical universe. In relativity theory, we all move through space-time and we all warp space-time as we move. It's just not apparent to us most of the time. But satellites in orbit around the Earth have to adjust their clocks to account for time dilation--because time moves at a different rate for them than it does for us on the ground.

Whenever one accelerates through one axis of time-space, the other axes of time-space are warped. You're essentially stretching one dimension and compressing another. Of course, this is problematic for a story about speedsters and the writers just ignore the physical changes that would result if these guys were really moving at these speeds. Hal, on the other hand that wears the ring, warps space so that he's outside of normal space-time, so then the writers don't have to worry about making any sense. Of course, the Speed Force is the same alchemy--it's another way of letting Barry and Wally step outside of normal space-time so they can perform impossible feats.

Why do other characters' powers need to make sense but not Superman's?

[king81992]

Why do other characters' powers need to make sense but not Superman's?

Superman's powers have always made sense, it's the Speed Force that makes no sense.

[Agent Z]

Superman's powers have always made sense, it's the Speed Force that makes no sense.

They've made about as much sense as anything else in comics. Including the Speed Force.