Controversial Superman Opinions

[Agent Z]

Well, in KC most people told Superman they didn't want his "protection".

Pretty sure that was after he complained about the Joker's death.

[Superfan90]

Kingdom Come and Action Comics #775 aren't liked because they are well written or have interesting philosophical debates. Certain fans of classic Superman like them because they told them what they wanted to hear. 775 is also incredibly racist.

Action 775 is mediocre, juvenile trash but its not racist. At least its not trying to be racist.

[Superfan90]

I fail to see how Diana is "leading Clark around by the dick". That seems to place the blame for all his actions on her. And it's as much a "Superman was right" story as it is a Batman was right story.

Neither were right but Diana did influence Superman to go full fascist and create a literal freaking gulag.

[magha_regulus]

KC Superman for me is what Superman should be in the main universe, I'm not saying it's always like that, but it would be nice to see him in some story. In KC it is the human being who destroys Superman, they tell him that everything he had fought for, everything he believed in, is worth nothing compared to a murderer, but for some reason many believe that Superman is the bad guy, when he eats I have said it is the human being that destroys it. The only weak point is that both Superman and the rest of the heroes came back very easily, it would have been nice to see the whole planet begging.

YIKES!!! I totally disagree. Kingdom Come is a cautionary tale of where not to take things.

[Superfan90]

As a Superman fanatic, Kingdom Come makes you come to grips the limitations of the Superman idea. He can’t do it all alone, he has limitations, he’s not always right, and he needs to be more forgiving of others. Action 775, Manchester Black and his team they just weren’t as good as Jenny Sparks or John Constantine in my opinion so it felt like he was knocking down straw men so to speak. Superman’s greatest feat in Kingdom Come is redeeming Captain Marvel.

Eh, Ross wanted Captain Marvel to simply beat up Superman to show he was the bigger dog so to speak. I think Waid moderated it a little bit.

Ross compensated with Cap rescuing a literally crying Superman like he was a kid in Justice.

[Agent Z]

Action 775 is mediocre, juvenile trash but its not racist. At least its not trying to be racist.

I'm sure it wasn't trying to be. But I think this design:



More than speaks for itself.

[Agent Z]

Neither were right but Diana did influence Superman to go full fascist and create a literal freaking gulag.

Diana's influence on Clark pretty much begins and ends with her convincing him to come out of isolation. If she did have that much of an influence on him, he wouldn't disagree with her on stuff like killing.

[Superfan90]

I'm sure it wasn't trying to be. But I think this design:



More than speaks for itself.

That's a racial stereotyping, but doesn't really mean that the writer was trying to put race into question here. Superman didn't win because he was White and Coldcast was black.

[Superfan90]

Diana's influence on Clark pretty much begins and ends with her convincing him to come out of isolation. If she did have that much of an influence on him, he wouldn't disagree with her on stuff like killing.

You know they interacted after that, right? She convinced him to be more stern in how he acts. Injustice is directly inspired by Kingdom Come especially it's wonder woman portrayal.

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com/2...ascistic-line/

This is a nice piece on the portrayal.

[Agent Z]

That's a racial stereotyping, but doesn't really mean that the writer was trying to put race into question here. Superman didn't win because he was White and Coldcast was black.

What exactly do you think racial stereotyping is? No, I don't think the writer was trying to say Coldcast lost because he was black (not consciously anyway), but this design, coupled with his villainy, speaks to at least a lack of thought when it comes to depicting characters of a certain race. You don't need to be a card-carrying member of the KKK to make a blunder like this. Same applies to stuff like how some Africans and Arabs are depicted in George Perez's Wonder Woman.

[Agent Z]

You know they interacted after that, right? She convinced him to be more stern in how he acts. Injustice is directly inspired by Kingdom Come especially it's wonder woman portrayal.

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com/2...ascistic-line/

This is a nice piece on the portrayal.

Yes, I am aware they interacted after that. But Superman is still responsible for his own actions. He seems to spend more time arguing with her than anything else, in comparison to Injustice Superman who is mostly on the same page with his universe's Wonder Woman.

[Superfan90]

What exactly do you think racial stereotyping is? No, I don't think the writer was trying to say Coldcast lost because he was black, but this design, coupled with his villainy, speaks to at least a lack of thought when it comes to depicting characters of a certain race. You don't need to be a card-carrying member of the KKK to make a blunder like this.

Yeah, but this wasn't racism in the times it was created in. You can't apply modern sensibilities to works from the past.

It was a mistake but not exactly racist.

[Superfan90]

Yes, I am aware they interacted after that. But Superman is still responsible for his own actions. He seems to spend more time arguing with her than anything else, in comparison to Injustice Superman who is mostly on the same page with his universe's Wonder Woman.

It was her who suggested that Superman imprisons metahumans calling them barely human. That's textbook fascism. Where do you think Superman got the idea of gulag?

But it's alright with SM/WW fans because they made googly eyes at each other.

[Agent Z]

Yeah, but this wasn't racism in the times it was created in. You can't apply modern sensibilities to works from the past.

This story was written in 2001, not the 1950s.

It was a mistake but not exactly racist.

It can be both. It was both.

It was her who suggested that Superman imprisons metahumans calling them barely human. That's textbook fascism. Where do you think Superman got the idea of gulag?

She suggested. He agreed. he wasn't coerced into going along with the idea.

[Superfan90]

This story was written in 2001, not the 1950s.



It can be both. It was both.

You can view it like that but majority of the critics (almost all) never thought about racist card.

She suggested. He agreed. he wasn't coerced into going along with the idea.

The exact same thing happened to injustice superman, he wasn't coerced either. Injustice wonder woman is loathed by pretty much everyone. Only Superwonder shippers think KC WW was good.