Controversial Superman Opinions

[TheCape]

This face screams psycho,and hank should be supermans joker.

He was more like Superman's Venom.

Considering that boths are hypocrites that blame the hero for their own misfortunes and look similar to him but with Nightmare Fuel in it.

[Superlad93]

Controversial opinion: "Grounded" was a good--even great--idea, AND a better executed version of it should've been done instead of a completely rebooted Superman in the New 52. The arc should've still been written by Morrison (with maybe a more consistent artist) and the tee shirt and jeans aesthetic should've still been kept.

The idea for "Grounded" was that Superman felt that he was loosing touch with the average person on the street. He rectifies this by literally walking across America, and writing wrongs as he sees them. This isn't actually a dumb idea, believe it or not. This is actually a pretty cool idea for a classic Americana-style folk tale like Paul Bunyan. Guy in a cape rolls into town like a classic cowboy, helps people with whatever problems they have, gives a wink and a smile, and then goes on to the next town. I suggest they put they guy in work boots, jeans, a t-shirt, and keep the cape. I would've liked to see them mix "Grounded," Morrison's run, and Truth into one.

Basically the New 52 could've been a continuation/soft reboot as opposed to a full reboot. We could've entered the new number one with burning questions: why's Superman dressed like that? Why isn't he in Metropolis? Who's protecting the city and the world if he's on this walk? What does Lois think of this? Who does Lois keep secretly meeting at night (spoilers: it's Superman. Clark marks the spot where stops his walk, and he goes to spend a bit of time with Lois and their son a few nights out of the week)

Have Jimmy follow Superman a few miles behind on his little motorbike. Jimmy catches the back draft of all of Superman's strange folk tale adventures (and even creates some of his own). This would reestablish Jimmy in way that no one ever bothered to do in a while. Maybe even make his little adventures backups for the main book (there's a issue where Jimmy is dealing with the effects of sleep deprivation, and he's hallucinating because of it.) . While Clark is off on his walk, Lois is holdin' it down in Metropolis (as one of Action Comics' main stars). Supergirl, Kon-El, and Steel guest star as they both take shifts protecting the city. Each has a specific viewpoint on what Clark is doing with his time. Each of their view points says something specific about their personality, ideals, and part in the Superman family. The introduction of Lee Lambert is also in this book.

Superman's folk tale adventures are somewhere between tall tales and social justice stories. It's also a sort of tor through a chunk of the DCU (at points even ending up in space and the future). It would be THE book to get for the purposed relaunch. One of the adventures is Clark having to find someone to fix the worn down bottoms of his work boots, and then seeing the craziness the spawns from the seemingly simple task. New 52 story of the boy who stole Superman's cape is re imagined in here. Eventually everything culminates with the 5D imp Vyn attacking Superman and trying to breakdown his concpet and shake his faith.

I think that's what "Grounded" could've been. Add to this the idea of a better told New Krypton story, the current Rebirth stories, and you've got a pretty good Superman who didn't even need to reboot.


Notes: Clark becomes a reserve member of the JLA for the duration of "Grounded." If the situation is bleak enough, he'll mark the spot he stops his walk at, and then fly to fight with the League. Clark changes his suit for the duration of the arc to be symbolic. Jon is about 8 years old during the arc, and makes time to see his son even through the duration of the arc. In comic his time walking is about two months give or take. He puts on a new (Man of Steel ish) costume at the end of the conclusion of the arc to symbolize his new strengthened resolve (the Jim Lee suit is never a thing). Action Comics, for the duration of the "Grounded" arc, becomes something of an anthology book like it used to be way back when. It's all in the interest of REALLY fleshing out the city, supporting cast, foes, and concepts. It basically gives Superman something concrete to come back to once the arc is over.

[Nelliebly]

I think this level analysis for a kid's cartoon is overboard. It's a show for little kids and is concerned with having fun rather than analysing the true meanings of the characters.

No, I would say it's the opposite. It's actually more damning and worthy of the critique it's receiving ::because:: it's a simple kids show. Children internalize messages and this may be the first introduction they have to these characters. It's completely unacceptable in 2016 to present that kind of regressive view of Lois Lane and Steve Trevor to kids. Forcing Lois Lane to repeatedly be defined by Silver Age history written by men for men in one of the most sexist eras in media history whilst ignoring nearly 35 years of change and development is gross.

Frankly, I'm so beyond tired and disgusted of watching female characters I love and respect having to pay over and over again for the mistakes of a sexist era that we are not responsible for. It's also just flat out not true and never as simple as "oh Lois only liked Superman and didn't like Clark." That's just not true. Lois liked the REAL person. When Superman was the real person...she liked Superman. In stories where Clark shed his fake act and acted like himself...brave and open...she fell for him. It has always been decidedly unfair to hold Lois to this crap in 2016 when we KNOW now that it's a much more complex story and it's unfair to paint her so poorly to kids like that.

I understand that shippers like to see what they like play out but have enough sense to recognize that calling on a silver age stereotype that hasn't been true in like 35 years and even then had more complexity than it's being given is totally unacceptable, guys.

It also becomes about branding. Lois Lane is a character with Wonder Woman in DC Superhero girls. She also has a super successful YA novel series. It's uncool for JLA to take a dump on her like that with kids and it is off message with the other properties with her aimed at young people from the same parent company. The same goes for Steve Trevor. DC is working overtime right now to try and restore Steve in the comics and he's about to co-star in the movie. Presenting him that way to kids, in such a regressive manner, is WRONG. It's dated. It's crappy. It's off-message.

Personally, I think the show is pretty terrible and their handling of Wonder Woman was already rubbing me the wrong way before this. This was just icing on the cake. The criticism here is justified and as someone who actually is a caregiver I care very much about the messages my kids receive from media. These are not the kinds of regressive and reductive messages I want them to learn and I don't appreciate the show leaning on such dated and sexist tropes to push Superman/Wonder Woman. I care about what my kids see and care about what they process too much to just wave that off.

The criticism of Superman/WW in Justice League Action is completely justified and I expect you are going to see more of it once more people get shops of the episodes and realize how regressive it is.

[Sacred Knight]

Whenever Geoff Johns gets involved, Superman goes to pot. If not immediately, shortly thereafter.

[superduperman]

There should totally be a Superman 78 comic and he should totally team up with Wonder Woman 77!

[LoveStar]

No, I would say it's the opposite. It's actually more damning and worthy of the critique it's receiving ::because:: it's a simple kids show. Children internalize messages and this may be the first introduction they have to these characters. It's completely unacceptable in 2016 to present that kind of regressive view of Lois Lane and Steve Trevor to kids. Forcing Lois Lane to repeatedly be defined by Silver Age history written by men for men in one of the most sexist eras in media history whilst ignoring nearly 35 years of change and development is gross.

Frankly, I'm so beyond tired and disgusted of watching female characters I love and respect having to pay over and over again for the mistakes of a sexist era that we are not responsible for. It's also just flat out not true and never as simple as "oh Lois only liked Superman and didn't like Clark." That's just not true. Lois liked the REAL person. When Superman was the real person...she liked Superman. In stories where Clark shed his fake act and acted like himself...brave and open...she fell for him. It has always been decidedly unfair to hold Lois to this crap in 2016 when we KNOW now that it's a much more complex story and it's unfair to paint her so poorly to kids like that.

I understand that shippers like to see what they like play out but have enough sense to recognize that calling on a silver age stereotype that hasn't been true in like 35 years and even then had more complexity than it's being given is totally unacceptable, guys.

It also becomes about branding. Lois Lane is a character with Wonder Woman in DC Superhero girls. She also has a super successful YA novel series. It's uncool for JLA to take a dump on her like that with kids and it is off message with the other properties with her aimed at young people from the same parent company. The same goes for Steve Trevor. DC is working overtime right now to try and restore Steve in the comics and he's about to co-star in the movie. Presenting him that way to kids, in such a regressive manner, is WRONG. It's dated. It's crappy. It's off-message.

Personally, I think the show is pretty terrible and their handling of Wonder Woman was already rubbing me the wrong way before this. This was just icing on the cake. The criticism here is justified and as someone who actually is a caregiver I care very much about the messages my kids receive from media. These are not the kinds of regressive and reductive messages I want them to learn and I don't appreciate the show leaning on such dated and sexist tropes to push Superman/Wonder Woman. I care about what my kids see and care about what they process too much to just wave that off.

The criticism of Superman/WW in Justice League Action is completely justified and I expect you are going to see more of it once more people get shops of the episodes and realize how regressive it is.

It's a kids show. It's not that deep. Most kids aren't even thinking to care about what they were saying which wasn't even that bad and was true. Its in the comic history so that's just what it is. It seems like its ok for people to criticize and make an uproar and ignore the not so good about Lois and Steve. That's a double standard. Steve isn't an interesting character anyway. Wonder Woman has currently lost her mind and has to be hand held and told her own truth by him. She also denied or dismissed her 5 year relationship to make him feel better and important in the most corniest, distasteful way ever. Trying to make him a rip off Captain America without powers isn't helping. The movie may not change much of anything either. Not everybody has to like and accept Superman/Wonder Woman but it's nothing truly sexist about it.

Also, JLA Wonder Woman is very well portrayed much better than the current comic version.

[manofsteel1979]

Controversial opinion: "Grounded" was a good--even great--idea, AND a better executed version of it should've been done instead of a completely rebooted Superman in the New 52. The arc should've still been written by Morrison (with maybe a more consistent artist) and the tee shirt and jeans aesthetic should've still been kept.

The idea for "Grounded" was that Superman felt that he was loosing touch with the average person on the street. He rectifies this by literally walking across America, and writing wrongs as he sees them. This isn't actually a dumb idea, believe it or not. This is actually a pretty cool idea for a classic Americana-style folk tale like Paul Bunyan. Guy in a cape rolls into town like a classic cowboy, helps people with whatever problems they have, gives a wink and a smile, and then goes on to the next town. I suggest they put they guy in work boots, jeans, a t-shirt, and keep the cape. I would've liked to see them mix "Grounded," Morrison's run, and Truth into one.

Basically the New 52 could've been a continuation/soft reboot as opposed to a full reboot. We could've entered the new number one with burning questions: why's Superman dressed like that? Why isn't he in Metropolis? Who's protecting the city and the world if he's on this walk? What does Lois think of this? Who does Lois keep secretly meeting at night (spoilers: it's Superman. Clark marks the spot where stops his walk, and he goes to spend a bit of time with Lois and their son a few nights out of the week)

Have Jimmy follow Superman a few miles behind on his little motorbike. Jimmy catches the back draft of all of Superman's strange folk tale adventures (and even creates some of his own). This would reestablish Jimmy in way that no one ever bothered to do in a while. Maybe even make his little adventures backups for the main book (there's a issue where Jimmy is dealing with the effects of sleep deprivation, and he's hallucinating because of it.) . While Clark is off on his walk, Lois is holdin' it down in Metropolis (as one of Action Comics' main stars). Supergirl, Kon-El, and Steel guest star as they both take shifts protecting the city. Each has a specific viewpoint on what Clark is doing with his time. Each of their view points says something specific about their personality, ideals, and part in the Superman family. The introduction of Lee Lambert is also in this book.

Superman's folk tale adventures are somewhere between tall tales and social justice stories. It's also a sort of tor through a chunk of the DCU (at points even ending up in space and the future). It would be THE book to get for the purposed relaunch. One of the adventures is Clark having to find someone to fix the worn down bottoms of his work boots, and then seeing the craziness the spawns from the seemingly simple task. New 52 story of the boy who stole Superman's cape is re imagined in here. Eventually everything culminates with the 5D imp Vyn attacking Superman and trying to breakdown his concpet and shake his faith.

I think that's what "Grounded" could've been. Add to this the idea of a better told New Krypton story, the current Rebirth stories, and you've got a pretty good Superman who didn't even need to reboot.


Notes: Clark becomes a reserve member of the JLA for the duration of "Grounded." If the situation is bleak enough, he'll mark the spot he stops his walk at, and then fly to fight with the League. Clark changes his suit for the duration of the arc to be symbolic. Jon is about 8 years old during the arc, and makes time to see his son even through the duration of the arc. In comic his time walking is about two months give or take. He puts on a new (Man of Steel ish) costume at the end of the conclusion of the arc to symbolize his new strengthened resolve (the Jim Lee suit is never a thing). Action Comics, for the duration of the "Grounded" arc, becomes something of an anthology book like it used to be way back when. It's all in the interest of REALLY fleshing out the city, supporting cast, foes, and concepts. It basically gives Superman something concrete to come back to once the arc is over.

You're hired!

[Kuwagaton]

The idea for "Grounded" was that Superman felt that he was loosing touch with the average person on the street. He rectifies this by literally walking across America, and writing wrongs as he sees them. This isn't actually a dumb idea, believe it or not. This is actually a pretty cool idea for a classic Americana-style folk tale like Paul Bunyan. Guy in a cape rolls into town like a classic cowboy, helps people with whatever problems they have, gives a wink and a smile, and then goes on to the next town. I suggest they put they guy in work boots, jeans, a t-shirt, and keep the cape. I would've liked to see them mix "Grounded," Morrison's run, and Truth into one.

A lot of things have been discussed in this thread. But if controversy was a throne, Grounded would have to be the true king.

However bad the execution was (I checked out early) and for all Grant's talent, I have to say that the Grounded we received is more appealing to me than a story about a walk across America not written by an American. I think a lot of the strong ideas could have been carried into a similar pitch for a different version of Truth by a writer along the lines of Morrison, though.

[Francisco]

Whenever Geoff Johns gets involved, Superman goes to pot. If not immediately, shortly thereafter.

I don't think this opinion is controversial. Is very factual lol

[misslane]

Its in the comic history so that's just what it is.

Nope. It's not the comic history at all. Lois and Steve didn't fall in love with Clark Kent and Diana Prince because they weren't the real versions of Superman and Wonder Woman. In fact, Diana Prince has never been THE REAL person behind the Wonder Woman identity because Diana is more Wonder Woman than Diana Prince. Likewise, during the Silver Age when Clark Kent was an over-the-top bumbling nerd, that was a disguise. The real man was Superman. Clark was a mask and a secret identity. In modern stories, Lois does fall in love with Clark because Clark is presented as a real reflection of Superman's core self. So the comments Superman and Wonder Woman make in the JLA show are wholly inaccurate.

Also, JLA Wonder Woman is very well portrayed much better than the current comic version.

I disagree. I don't think there's anything in the JLA Wonder Woman that resembles the character. Diana is a generic action girl and the Smurfette of the team. There's nothing about her that is special. Wonder Woman, in my opinion, is unique, and this version of the character might as well be named Strong Female Character than Wonder Woman.

[Superlad93]

You're hired!

You won't regret this, sir. I'll get to work right away

A lot of things have been discussed in this thread. But if controversy was a throne, Grounded would have to be the true king.

However bad the execution was (I checked out early) and for all Grant's talent, I have to say that the Grounded we received is more appealing to me than a story about a walk across America not written by an American. I think a lot of the strong ideas could have been carried into a similar pitch for a different version of Truth by a writer along the lines of Morrison, though.

Doesn't have to be Morrison, but, as an American, I've always valued an outsider's perspective on the country. A lot of the times they're not as jaded and cynical as the people living here. To a lot of outsiders, America is still a land of potential and opportunity. That said, I'm well aware that people from other countries know darn well what our country has done, and even the atrocities that it's been built on. I'd like to see a blending of that outsider's optimism and cold hard facts. I personally think Morrison is smart and thoughtful enough to make that blend work. I also think such a perspective works well in tandem with Superman, especially after New Krypton (under the assumption that my hypothetical New Krypton arc is better and more thoughtful) and him really living within his second culture.

That's Superman coming back to America/Earth with a sobering second look, but still filled with the optimism of what it all can still be. It's like him landing on the planet all over again, and this, coincidentally, makes it a pretty great relaunching point for the books and the character similar to Rebirth's "midlife origin story."

I think at the very least this book should be written by an immigrant or first generation American if not an outsider. That's the perspective I think will yield the most authentic POV. There could be so much to this hypothetical arc/book.

Change the name of the arc from "Grounded" to "American myth" or "folk tales." Write it in a way that it's something you'd WANT TO give to your kid, and not just something you CAN. There's a pretty massive distinction between the two that's usually found in how touchy issues of import are presented.

[LoveStar]

Nope. It's not the comic history at all. Lois and Steve didn't fall in love with Clark Kent and Diana Prince because they weren't the real versions of Superman and Wonder Woman. In fact, Diana Prince has never been THE REAL person behind the Wonder Woman identity because Diana is more Wonder Woman than Diana Prince. Likewise, during the Silver Age when Clark Kent was an over-the-top bumbling nerd, that was a disguise. The real man was Superman. Clark was a mask and a secret identity. In modern stories, Lois does fall in love with Clark because Clark is presented as a real reflection of Superman's core self. So the comments Superman and Wonder Woman make in the JLA show are wholly inaccurate.



I disagree. I don't think there's anything in the JLA Wonder Woman that resembles the character. Diana is a generic action girl and the Smurfette of the team. There's nothing about her that is special. Wonder Woman, in my opinion, is unique, and this version of the character might as well be named Strong Female Character than Wonder Woman.

But did they know Clark Kent and Diana Prince weren't "real"? What if they were "real", they still were shown ignoring those personas. Isn't that where the whole weird "triangle of two" comes from? JLA has callbacks so the writer/producer(s) didn't just pull it out of no where. It had to be refferring back from somewhere in the comics, right? But anyway this is all irrelevant and digging too much in a cartoon. That wasn't even the main point of the cartoon anyway.

JLA Diana is smart, confident, strong, lighthearted, and fun which is how she should be. She is equal to Superman which now in comics she isn't anymore. The title is Justice League ACTION...so she will be doing alot of action-y things. Rebirth Diana is dull being a major downgrade from the fire new52 version had. She offers nothing in justice league nor trinity book or any other team up for that matter like in the Holiday special.

[Kuwagaton]

You won't regret this, sir. I'll get to work right away



Doesn't have to be Morrison, but, as an American, I've always valued an outsider's perspective on the country. A lot of the times they're not as jaded and cynical as the people living here. To a lot of outsiders, America is still a land of potential and opportunity. That said, I'm well aware that people from other countries know darn well what our country has done, and even the atrocities that it's been built on. I'd like to see a blending of that outsider's optimism and cold hard facts. I personally think Morrison is smart and thoughtful enough to make that blend work. I also think such a perspective works well in tandem with Superman, especially after New Krypton (under the assumption that my hypothetical New Krypton arc is better and more thoughtful) and him really living within his second culture.

That's Superman coming back to America/Earth with a sobering second look, but still filled with the optimism of what it all can still be. It's like him landing on the planet all over again, and this, coincidentally, makes it a pretty great relaunching point for the books and the character similar to Rebirth's "midlife origin story."

I think at the very least this book should be written by an immigrant or first generation American if not an outsider. That's the perspective I think will yield the most authentic POV. There could be so much to this hypothetical arc/book.

I view Morrison doing a walk across America the way I view JMS doing a walk across England. But I get interested in the outsider impression, also. And while I don't think we have to be flattered, I do like when comics like Hitman can manage to do something different than show us how we're just as bad as anyone else or whatever. By all means go there if you wish, but try to do more than that too y'know

I'd like to see my favorite writer, Peter Milligan, get a shot at exploring who Superman is, but through an idea like you've set up.

[Agent Z]

I find it funny how criticisms of Rebirth Diana boil down to her being the victim of a deception. You know, like what happened in Azzarello's run? How does having the mystical wool pulled over her eyes make weak?

[Sacred Knight]

Justice League Action is simply using the old classic dynamics with Lois and Steve. Lois had a crush on Superman; was not romantically interested in Clark. Steve had a crush on Wonder Woman; was not romantically interested in Diana Prince. Outside the hypocrisy of them joking (and it is just jokes not meant to be taken so damn seriously, come on, its a comedy), of the two not knowing their real selves when its they themselves who are hiding their real selves from most everyone, the ideas in of themselves are accurate from a pre-Crisis point of view. All that's going on here is that its taking a page from another era instead of the current one.