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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    Superman was meant by his creators to reflect the immigrant experience so if you want to truly modernise that, have a new version of Superman not be white. It'll never happen but Superman raised by a Mexican or Arabic family of immigrants would fit with Siegel and Shuster's original intentions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    That was just me. I kinda would like an Arabic Superman. There is a web comic with a Pakistani Superman.
    My preferred take would be a Superman that looks biracial, and that the Kents are an interracial couple.

  2. #47
    Incredible Member Agniwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'm just gonna put it out there: I'm not white, and I'm 100% cool with Superman staying white. My mom's a straight up immigrant, and I live the whole "two worlds" thing to a tee, but, again, I'm totally fine with Superman staying white. I don't need to see Superman as a person of color to strongly identify with him and his immigrant struggle.

    Changing his race to another one of the races that we have on Earth would only serve to add a very specific race's issues rather than speaking to the idea of what Clark's ACTUAL second culture is, Kryptonian. If Superman gets turned into whatever other race, that doesn't at all mean he's part of that race in a cultural way. But culture and society are the actual points of the immigration idea in his myth. Not all immigrants are people of color, and not all people of color are immigrants. Changing his race would end up only being arbitrary because Krypton is ultimately where his second culture comes from, and not from any place on Earth. I get where people are coming from with this idea, but it actually ends up being more inherently offensive than helpful, in my honest opinion. Not at all saying that you've offended me or something like that. Just making a point.
    totally agree with this, superman is the story about someone who grew in a world as a native immigrant (if that ever makes sense to you) changing his ethnic is not the oh great solution for anything, if much just a flavoring that has no repercussion in the basis of the character at all, does no matter if he is clark, or val or hernan. superman is about saving the day, but because of the context from hernan that has a little shift but that is, again, because of context and not ethnical grouping

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine - The Worst Poster Ever View Post
    My preferred take would be a Superman that looks biracial.
    I actually think Superman's race should be hard to pin down. You might call him "white" but largely just because he's not obviously anything else.

    The biology of Kryptonians is different and their sun was a red giant. Their skin tones wouldnt be just like our's. Then again, really they wouldnt look anything like us at all, but we cant embrace science *that* much.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #49
    Fantastic Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    - Superman has had some pretty awful books. At times, I could barely get through some of his stories and many, if not all of the 90's Superman is a chore to get through. Most of the whacky Silver Age stuff is unreadable. Though, when a good Superman book comes along, I believe Superman is the most well rounded and best character to read when all things are clicking.

    -He is STILL the dream job; Godfather of superhero's regardless of the others' popularity.

    - Clark's powers should never be fully measured. There should be an unknown and untapped source of his powerset that will always be hidden and not calculated.

    - Any version of the Super-kid annoys me. I try hard to like Superman having a child.

    - I was never interested in Clark as Superboy. Watching him fly around Smallville as a child saving the day brings no enthusiasm for me as a reader.

    - Lana Lang in Pak's Action Comics had to be one of the most annoying aspects of the books. Never have I disliked Lana more than I did when she was a mechanical, asskicking engineer.

    -John Romita Jr's art literally made me angry and want to shred the pages in my bare hands. Him drawing Supes was that awful.

    - No matter how much I read, I get confused about Silver Age, Pre-Crisis, Post Crisis, Modern Age, etc era's of Superman and I don't look at each version as anything definitive of the character. I try to keep my comics simple. Every Superman story I ever read, whether it be Golden Age, Bronze Age, Silver age or Modern Age, I read as the one and only SUPERMAN. They're all the same Superman to me.

    -Continuity doesn't matter to me much if a single issue in an arc is good and satisfying. If so, I treat it as a one-off or simply an issue on its own merits.

    - Though I think the DCEU/Man of Steel suit is possibly the greatest rendition of the Superman suit of all time, I still want to see Henry Cavill don the trunks one day.

    - The definitive Fortress of Solitude doesn't always need to be Sun-Stone crystal like, ala the Donner-verse. Let Supes roam free with multiple Fortress's around Earth or around the known Galaxy. Have him travel to other Earth's in the Multiverse if need-be (Brainiac's ship being the Fortress in Morrison's run was fun new take.)

    - I am perfectly okay with Superman taking a backseat in power levels to any Justice League member, villain or in other medium's of comic books. As I said above, I always seem to read Superman's power levels as some sort of untapped potential.

    - When somebody asks "Who wins in a race? Superman or Flash?" the answer should always be Flash. Though Supes can give him a run for his money, the point of the Flash is irrelevant if Superman can beat him. Each hero brings their own identity and skills that make a difference. Supes may share those credentials with others, but the others shouldn't suffer as characters at Superman's expense.

    - Whether or not one should hate Superman, he should always be respected.

    - Superman is the most human aspect of a superhero regardless of his Kryptonian and alien heritage. Clark is one of the most relatable superhero's in comic book fantasy.

    - Clark has the best hair, ever and it doesn't look dorky in the slightest.

    - If Superman could have a kid, then he should have a mentally challenged biological brother, Bizarro.

    - Superman's books should be one-shots in loose continuity.

    -Green Kryptonite should be the only Kryptonite.

    -Regardless of more powerful beings with more impressive feats, Superman won't lose and can't be beat come crunch time.

    -Clark Kent should know how to throw hands. I hate that every time he lose's his powers, he turns into an uneducated dweeb. That was one of the aspect's I loved most about Truth. Though the story was once again lackluster, it was good to see a powerless Clark Kent be able to brawl instead of cower.

    - Neal Adams' Coming of the Supermen was ridiculously bad-awesome.

    -American Alien may be the best Clark Kent/Superman story written.

    -Lois should totally be in love with Clark Kent and ramble to him about how much she hates Superman.
    Last edited by Tra-EL; 12-01-2016 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #50
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    Mark Waid with the controversy again.



    MOS Superman is a libertarian? Snyder is a noted Ayn Rand fan, but I don't really see it.
    Last edited by Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever; 12-01-2016 at 11:14 PM.

  6. #51
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Why are people so offended by the idea of Superman as a vegetarian? They guy gets fueled by the sun! Technically he doesn't need to eat anything!
    It is strange how people get so weirded out by that. We, as humans, have the means currently to never eat animal products again and completely wipe out factory farms and suffering- but it's big business. The fact that an alien sun deity wouldn't eat sentient lifeforms shouldn't be that hard to wrap around. Superman would just be a casual vegan, most likely.

  7. #52
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    I can see Superman becoming a vegan, once he's grown up (although it takes beef bourguignon off the table), but it's hard to square it with his early life on the Kent farm. They could be vegetarian, but being vegan they wouldn't have chickens for eggs or cows for milk. They wouldn't even have bees for honey. It's hard to imagine Martha and Jonathan going that route. But maybe Clark convinces them to switch to organic crops. And they set up the General Store in town to sell their organic products to the local community.

  8. #53
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    What was the initial reaction to 'Birthright' making Superman a vegetarian?

    From my time here on the forum it seems most people are either supportive of Superman being a vegetarian or are indifferent to it, but at the time it must have gotten a lot of backlash?

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with it, it suits his character well enough. Don't really care either way, so long as they don't make him all preachy about how meat is murder or something.

  10. #55
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    The Reeve movies did more damage to the character than they did good.

    1)Kneel Before Zod. Prior to this movie Superman had numerous foes from Krypton. After these films they were all reduced to Zod's lackeys (at least until Morrison's reboot gave us Xa-Du)
    2)Holographic Jor-El: How many times since then have we seen Superman (or Supergirl) need to turn to some recreation of a dead parent for guidance. And how often since has the Fortress been Superman's creation rather than some Kryptonian artifact.
    3)Clark the clown: Yes the comic version had some humorous traits going back decades before this, but this movie cemented the idea of Clark (at least in Metropolis) as nothing but comic relief. I think this as much as anything else made Byrne's inversion of the character seem like a good idea.
    4)Overpowered: Defending Superman from this criticism would be a lot easier if we didn't have things like the Superman/Zoners battle with expanding plastic symbols, ice statues, and such. Or "rebuild the Great Wall of China vision"

  11. #56
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    They should stop making Superman origin stories with alternate twists, yeah I know many of these stories are good but they've also prevented the character from moving beyond that point and the different flavors have only divided fans. No new Superman origins period.

    New 52 Superman era was almost entirely rubbish on every level and I'm glad it's over.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    Superman is coooler than Batman.

    Yeah, I said it.

  13. #58
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    There should probably be some kind of ongoing Elseworlds Imaginary Stories for Superman. Maybe its own title, rather than expensive prestige format one-shots and limited runs. The imaginary stories were some of the best stuff from the Weisinger era and in these a lot of alternatives could be worked out. If a different take on Superman can be expressed and developed--that gives it a chance to gain a following and to see whether it adds anything good to the character or not. If there's something there that everybody likes and wants to be in continuity, then the brain-trust can bring it into continuity. Yet for those ideas that seem good but fall flat, the brain-trust can abandon them without any damage to continuity.

  14. #59
    Fantastic Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    There should probably be some kind of ongoing Elseworlds Imaginary Stories for Superman. Maybe its own title, rather than expensive prestige format one-shots and limited runs. The imaginary stories were some of the best stuff from the Weisinger era and in these a lot of alternatives could be worked out. If a different take on Superman can be expressed and developed--that gives it a chance to gain a following and to see whether it adds anything good to the character or not. If there's something there that everybody likes and wants to be in continuity, then the brain-trust can bring it into continuity. Yet for those ideas that seem good but fall flat, the brain-trust can abandon them without any damage to continuity.
    Isn't that what the Earth One books were (which were very good btw, which comment in itself can be a controversial comment)?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tra-EL View Post
    Isn't that what the Earth One books were (which were very good btw, which comment in itself can be a controversial comment)?
    But Earth-One--also Birthright, All-Star Superman, et al--is just one take on Superman and a limited run (and very expensive). An ongoing title could feature many different takes on Superman--and they could keep returning to these different concepts. In my head, it would be sort of like BATMAN: LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT--but instead of being semi-in-continuity, it would be totally non-continuity. It would give different creators a chance to get out of their system some approach to Superman that they always wanted to try--but without destroying the universe to get there. And if the idea proved itself there, then there'd be the option to make it legitimate.

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