Controversial Superman Opinions

[stephens2177]

Byrne's best and greatest contribution was the bio-aura. It made the super suit indestructible and explained why large structures/things didn't fall apart when Superman lifted them.

And gave us kon-els tactile telekinesis

[Ascended]

Byrne's best and greatest contribution was the bio-aura. It made the super suit indestructible and explained why large structures/things didn't fall apart when Superman lifted them.

I loved that explanation for the powers. It bypasses all the problems the laws of physics creates. It opens the doors for new powers like Clark extending the field around, say, a small ship falling into the sun. It explains why the costume survives all but the most dangerous situations as well as how Superman can catch a falling Lois Lane without her being split in half.

Really just a beautiful concept. Shame that the rest of the changes Byrne made weren't as good.

[Kuwagaton]

My favorite Byrne idea was making it so that he didn't remember Krypton. While he wasn't able to do the story he really wanted as a follow-up, later writers could dig into the idea of a man searching to find his mysterious destiny even though it had nothing to do with him being Superman. I love that Kal L didn't have an origin built into him either, makes him seem more confident.

And gave us kon-els tactile telekinesis

Exclusive powers are definitely a gimmick, but I don't mean that in a negative way. That kinda gimmick makes you come back to the one character, and I think Marvel made a huge mistake in swamping the shelves with literal and figurative clones of Spider-Man. Tactile telekinesis is my favorite power ginmick, hands down.

[stephens2177]

My favorite Byrne idea was making it so that he didn't remember Krypton. While he wasn't able to do the story he really wanted as a follow-up, later writers could dig into the idea of a man searching to find his mysterious destiny even though it had nothing to do with him being Superman. I love that Kal L didn't have an origin built into him either, makes him seem more confident.



Exclusive powers are definitely a gimmick, but I don't mean that in a negative way. That kinda gimmick makes you come back to the one character, and I think Marvel made a huge mistake in swamping the shelves with literal and figurative clones of Spider-Man. Tactile telekinesis is my favorite power ginmick, hands down.

It is the perfect explanation for superman being SUPER,and as seen by Kon it's just to much fun to watch him use it.

I don't think Kon took it very far though,he never figured out TK hyper acceleration(for speed and heat vision/intensified heat aura),tactile senses( touch or some kind of extended contact), invisibility,and so on

[Superlad93]

I think Kal-L/golden age Superman is the most overrated fallback in the Superman myth.

I think golden age Superman is a fun idea, sure. I personally enjoy some of the concepts presented there. However, that doesn't mean that I think just bringing him back wholesale or invoking his likeness or attributes somehow enhances the story being told. I hate that some creators can just use his likeness to basically pacify readers while their story makes no real strides forward. Simply taking Superman back to that style of character DOESN'T fix whatever issues he has. Kal-L himself coming back won't magically fix everything.

By all means, make use of the golden age's ideas, but please don't leave that as your big attention grabbing gimmick. I'd also like to point out that a writer can use concepts from the golden age without fully reverting back to it.

PS. if you know me, then you know this isn't a jab at Morrison.

[Sacred Knight]

Okay, I'll say it. I'll catch hell but I'll say it.

President Superman is not THAT cool. The concepts are sorta interesting (but not even that much, I don't like the idea of Superman as an actual government authority) and his characterization has been pretty bland, even when Morrison wrote him. Just don't see the big appeal. Its fun to see every now and again don't get me wrong, I just think he's very overrated as a concept.

On a related note, I think my appeal toward alternate Supermen are actually the ones with more subtle, not-as-noticeable differences. I can easily see how that'd be sorta "What's even the point?" with some people, but I enjoy exploring more nuanced differences. This feeling goes a LONG way into explaining why I think New 52 Superman or a Superman like him could work in his own book alongside the main line.

[TheCape]

I'm not as in love with the callback to the Golden Age in Morrison's run on Action, as everyone here seems to be, but i definetly enjoyed it. Wich bring me to my controversial opinion, the best storyarc of that run was the first 4 issues and issue 0. I don't think that the rest is bad or that is devoid of any kind of merit, but i don't think that was all that great.

[Jim Kelly]

Say what? President Superman? You mean this guy?

[Superlad93]

Few more:

-I think Pete Ross is Clark's actual best friend. Jimmy, Bruce, and Diana are all very close to Clark, and he loves all of them. However, I think Pete is Clark's actual A1 since day 1. I mean, just look at the sort of guy Clark is usually shown to be. He's a guy who's a little stuck in his ways on somethings (that's not to say he's an inflexible stick in the mud obviously). I think he'd be the type of guy to have his best friend be the guy he's known since daycare. Historically Pete's also been the first person to learn his secret (IIR) and he kept this knowledge from even Clark himself while he tried his best to protect him.

-Pete Ross is criminally underused. This is a character that has very special insight into who Clark is as a person. You'd imagine Lana would fill this well enough herself along with being the "old flame," but I'd argue that Clark would unconsciously act a little different around the girl he's had a crush on since he knew what a crush even was. I think Pete is unique in the Superman myth because he's seen and unfiltered Clark Kent since before Superman was a thing. I'd love to see him brought back outside of some stupid love triangle with Lana. He doesn't need to be part of Clark's everyday, but a sense of his presence should be there. I myself have a long time best friend who went away for college, but we still text and talk on the phone once in a while. I've got new friends from my school and everything, but once he comes into town it's like time just unfreezes for us and we're right back into it. I think Pete and Clark are like that. I also think we SHOULDN'T add in any supernatural element to his character. He's just Pete, Clark's best friend from Kansas.

[Francisco]

Few more:

-I think Pete Ross is Clark's actual best friend. Jimmy, Bruce, and Diana are all very close to Clark, and he loves all of them. However, I think Pete is Clark's actual A1 since day 1. I mean, just look at the sort of guy Clark is usually shown to be. He's a guy who's a little stuck in his ways on somethings (that's not to say he's an inflexible stick in the mud obviously). I think he'd be the type of guy to have his best friend be the guy he's known since daycare. Historically Pete's also been the first person to learn his secret (IIR) and he kept this knowledge from even Clark himself while he tried his best to protect him.

-Pete Ross is criminally underused. This is a character that has very special insight into who Clark is as a person. You'd imagine Lana would fill this well enough herself along with being the "old flame," but I'd argue that Clark would unconsciously act a little different around the girl he's had a crush on since he knew what a crush even was. I Pete is unique in the Superman myth because he's seen and unfiltered Clark Kent since before Superman was a thing. I'd love to see him brought back outside of some stupid love triangle with Lana. He doesn't need to be part of Clark's everyday, but a sense of his presence should be there. I myself have a long time best friend who went away for college, but we still text and talk on the phone once in a while. I've got new friends from my school and everything, but once he comes into town it's like time just unfreezes for us and we're right back into it. I think Pete and Clark are like that. I also think we SHOULDN'T add in any supernatural element to his character. He's just Pete, Clark's best friend from Kansas.

This not controversial at all for me

[The World]

I think Kal-L/golden age Superman is the most overrated fallback in the Superman myth.

I think golden age Superman is a fun idea, sure. I personally enjoy some of the concepts presented there. However, that doesn't mean that I think just bringing him back wholesale or invoking his likeness or attributes somehow enhances the story being told. I hate that some creators can just use his likeness to basically pacify readers while their story makes no real strides forward. Simply taking Superman back to that style of character DOESN'T fix whatever issues he has. Kal-L himself coming back won't magically fix everything.

By all means, make use of the golden age's ideas, but please don't leave that as your big attention grabbing gimmick. I'd also like to point out that a writer can use concepts from the golden age without fully reverting back to it.

PS. if you know me, then you know this isn't a jab at Morrison.

It's the lack of influence from Kal-L that has imo led to Superman being seen as dull and bland. He has no guiding star and his characterization jumps between whatever fits the writers desire and generic good guy.

[Ascended]

I think Kal-L/golden age Superman is the most overrated fallback in the Superman myth.

Can I ask what makes you say this? I thought this is a fairly new thing? From what I remember, Morrison's Action was the first time the Golden Age had been heavily revisited since, at the latest, COIE and the end of earth-2's Superman.

I know that late 30's, pulp-y take on Superman has been touched on briefly in short arcs or Elseworlds over the years, but seems to me when things go retro it's usually for the Silver Age (and rightfully so, Silver Age is the Boss of comics book Ages).

If you're talking about the fans....yeah, I suppose. There might be a segment of fandom that puts the Golden Age on a pedestal (I think I might be one of them). But how could you not? The social crusader angle is so painfully relevant right now, the circus surrounding news media so naturally dovetails Clark Kent, and its an approach that launched an entire genre. Superman went back to Silver/Bronze Age stuff in the 00's and look where it got us. A little dash of Golden Age just might be what everyone needs. The popularity of Morrison's t-shirt Superman appears to support that there's a sizable audience for it.

Now, a full-on retreat to that sort of thing? All t-shirt all the time? That'd be too much. But a little social relevance isnt going to hurt Superman a damn bit.

Okay, I'll say it. I'll catch hell but I'll say it.

President Superman is not THAT cool.

.....................

It's like I don't even know you.

Seriously though, I think President Superman is fun as hell. It's just a weird place to put the character in. President Superman is like that weird flavor of ice cream you try just for the novelty while you're on vacation. "I'm in Maine. What's this? Lobster ice cream? Why of course I want some!" It's fun, its fondly remembered, but you only eat it when you're in Bar Harbor. Superman is a Clark-Obama mashup (not just visually, but I personally saw a few shout-outs to Obama in the writing) and everyone thinks Lex is racist. That's hilarious. But that's all it is.

[godisawesome]

I personally like Golden Age pre-formula stuff better, especially the more pulpy kind. To me, if it's the kind of story the Fleischer Suoerman would do, that's Golden Age, where Clark Kent has a little bit of attitude at times, Lois can and will take care of herself or be in a Situation where anyone would a "in distress," and the bad guys tend to be violently threatening and make Superman fight a bit more for it.

What I don't like is when people take the broad interpretations from the "Super-Dickery" age and make that their while version of the characters, with Lois becoming more of a pathetic sitcom character, and Superman more bland and seemingly arrogant while Clark become a facade.

[daBronzeBomma]

Haha! You know, this is actually a kind of funny idea - could be fun for an all-ages version of Superman.

I don't like it though... I don't like Krypto being able to communicate that well with Supeman - and hey, don't you think Krypto being in the Phantom Zone, yet still watching over Kal-El is a better idea? There is no dog more faithful than Krypto - he truly IS Superman's best friend!

*sniffles* Dog-gonnit! Now you made me all teary-eyed thinking about "The Ghost in the Fortress of Solitude" and "A Boy and His Dog" in particular! Jeesh daBronzeBomma, you ain't got no heart in that bod' of yours!

Whoa, I am totally against the idea that anyone but the most irredeemable souls ever (Ursa) spend any length of time in the Phantom Zone. Certainly not Lar Gand, and DEFINITELY not Krypto. It is not a good place for anyone to be.

I like Smart Krypto, but I'm not advocating that Krypto turn into Brian the dog from FAMILY GUY (fully sapient canine being who can speak English better than most Americans who gets it on with human women and it's no big deal at all there). I don't even want thought bubbles for Krypto, either. But I'm also against the idea of a creature as powerful as Krypto be as ... well, "dumb", as a Earthly dog (cats, pigs, apes, whales and dolphins are much, much smarter animals, tho not nearly as loyal).

I propose that Krypto (fine, Streaky, too) is a Kryptonian h'rakka (that dragon-looking beast Jor rode in MAN OF STEEL) who can shape-shift and simply prefers/is stuck in his Earthly dog form. H'rakkas should be kind of a multi-purpose servant: part dog, part horse, part droid from STAR WARS. H'rakkas speak their own language (let's call it "Low Kryptonian" as opposed the humanoids' "High Kryptonian") that sound to human ears indistinguishable from dog voices. So, we never see or hear what Krypto is saying saying or thinking, all we hear are the barks, but Kal and Kara hear a legitimate dialogue and respond in their own language. If Jonathan and Martha are around, Kal has fashioned an organic translator so they can also have these conversations with Krypto. Krypto stays on the Kent Farm to protect the Kents while Kal is in Metropolis or away. An outsider would only hear a dog barking, tho.

Think of Kal's seemingly one-sided conversations with Smart Krypto as a hybrid of Lassie ("What's that, boy? Jimmy fell down the well and he's got a detonator strapped to him? Let's go!") and Chewbacca ("Laugh it up, Fuzzball!").

[Superlad93]

It's the lack of influence from Kal-L that has imo led to Superman being seen as dull and bland. He has no guiding star and his characterization jumps between whatever fits the writers desire and generic good guy.

I simply don't agree. Such "guiding star" could come from someone having a clear vision for Superman to guide him. The current books have this in the form of turning him into a literal and furtive dad. American Alien such a vision too. It's just the quality of work that matters after that. The quality put in enhances the outside perception of the vision you're creating. Good quality makes your idea look good. Simple as that. Anything else is taste.

If you're talking about the fans....

Yup it's fans. Golden age Superman simply just isn't the instafix that some fans assume him to be. I think it's more the idea of the character rather than anything he's ever really done or brought. That last little bit of possibility that DC has yet to completely pimp out. Making the character have anything to do with social justice doesn't automatically have to mirror how the golden age Superman did it. You don't have to do it the same way if you want to do it at all. Being inspired by the idea of the golden age Superman is one thing, but saying that wholesale bringing all of his sensibilities back is the great savior of the Superman line is basically a Superman fan campfire story.

Again, I want to stress that I'm not against the idea of the golden age (obviously) but this idea that bringing back all of those sensibilities will just fix everything is just incorrect, to me. Superman talking like Clint Eastwood and punching more people in the face in the name of social justice won't suddenly turn him into a hit.

I can even add in a controversial opinion here: Max Landis' American Alien did a better job of updating (be clear on what this means) aspects of the golden age than Grant Morrison's Action Comics. I say this with sound mind, and as a devoted Morrison fan who absolutely LOVED his run on Action. No AA's Clark wasn't wasn't the big overt social justice warrior that Action Clark was. No he didn't come in with a puffed out chest and a squinty eyed smile. And yeah he could fly since he was like 12. AA went a little deeper and a little less obvious with it's direct updates to the original interpretation of the character. Something Landis said in an interview with Collider movies really stuck with me. He said that he went into writing Superman as if the golden age Superman never got as popular as he did, and Superman was just this comic only a few nerds knew about. His idea was to come at it from there, and then update it. That, to me, is how you take from the golden age if you're gonna do it at all. You update rather than just take.