Controversial Superman Opinions

[stephens2177]

I feel like they need to let superman use a lot more technology. He's got the Superman robots fleet and they really should show them in use more. He should use a mix of things he got from adventures that he stores in the Fortress of Solitude and things that he invented himself. I'd love to see his scientific prowess shown more.

I also think they are using General Zod completely wrong. He's a general from a highly advanced Super science society. He should be out trying to conquer Daxam and Rann and making deals with the Khunds and what not. He should be building a powerbase. When he escapes from the Phantom Zone he should be trying to get as far away from that projector as possible and build up his forces to conquer as much as he can of the known universe and impose Kryptonian norms on everyone. Zod needs to be the darkside of Krypton and not so Earth centric of a villain. Make him a intergalactic threat!

I like.both of these ideas,and Zod should be like Thragg from Invincible IMO.

[Ascended]

I'm not fan. That's no longer "rough and tumble young scrapper." It's attempted murder.

I don't pretend to know what Lobdell's (DC's) actual back story for that was (if there even was one), but from what we know, it was wrongheaded from jump street. So yeah, not my cup of tea.

I'm not a fan of the idea either. Ya'll know I'm tentatively fine with Clark taking Zod's life. But Lex? No.

But I gotta admit, I was more curious about what Lex did and that story than I was just about every other mystery the New52 threw at me. Lex! What did you DO!?

The fight with Collector worked intentionally within limitations because that was an intentionally underdeveloped Superman. The fight with Imperiex, like his reheating of the entire planet through heat vision, involved amps that don't actually detail the limit of his personal strength; we don't really know he close he can get alone, especially with the experience of having done it then under his belt.

Sorry man, I gotta disagree (mostly).

First off, on the execution side of things, I think Superman #75 is well crafted. The dialogue is perhaps a little too exposition-y but the issue doesn't lose its sense of urgency. There are some nice character interactions, powerful iconography, and the mystery of who and what Doomsday was played nicely into the tension. And of course, the hype was huge. It's what pulled me into the comics, actually. I dont do nostalgia....except for Superman 75. Much love. But the fight itself isn't as....wide....and imaginative as it should have been. It just isn't, and we've seen better from the same creators. At the very least it should have crossed beyond the city. It's not too hard to imagine these two throwing each other around and crossing miles in seconds. I get that part of the threat and the problem is that Clark couldnt actually move Doomsday around too much. But he did manage it a few times, and the results should have been more dramatic.

[manofsteel1979]

I'm not a fan of the idea either. Ya'll know I'm tentatively fine with Clark taking Zod's life. But Lex? No.

But I gotta admit, I was more curious about what Lex did and that story than I was just about every other mystery the New52 threw at me. Lex! What did you DO!?



Sorry man, I gotta disagree (mostly).

First off, on the execution side of things, I think Superman #75 is well crafted. The dialogue is perhaps a little too exposition-y but the issue doesn't lose its sense of urgency. There are some nice character interactions, powerful iconography, and the mystery of who and what Doomsday was played nicely into the tension. And of course, the hype was huge. It's what pulled me into the comics, actually. I dont do nostalgia....except for Superman 75. Much love. But the fight itself isn't as....wide....and imaginative as it should have been. It just isn't, and we've seen better from the same creators. At the very least it should have crossed beyond the city. It's not too hard to imagine these two throwing each other around and crossing miles in seconds. I get that part of the threat and the problem is that Clark couldnt actually move Doomsday around too much. But he did manage it a few times, and the results should have been more dramatic.

I always thought that they handled the Doomsday fight in the SUPERMAN/ DOOMSDAY animated movie Better than the comics version, particularly the end.

As for what Lex might have done to piss Clark off enough to drive him to kill , I remember a Bleeding Cool rumor that Lex would have been responsible somehow for Lana dying. This was before Pak got hold of her and reimagined her. I remember wondering at the time that both Pete and Lana,who figured into Morrison's ACTION run , were suspiciously absent in present set stories.

Anyhow, things worked out for the best ( mostly).

[Adekis]

I always thought that they handled the Doomsday fight in the SUPERMAN/ DOOMSDAY animated movie Better than the comics version, particularly the end.

Me too. It's not close, either, the movie's fight is a lot cooler than the one in the books.

As for what Lex might have done to piss Clark off enough to drive him to kill , I remember a Bleeding Cool rumor that Lex would have been responsible somehow for Lana dying. This was before Pak got hold of her and reimagined her. I remember wondering at the time that both Pete and Lana,who figured into Morrison's ACTION run , were suspiciously absent in present set stories.

Anyhow, things worked out for the best ( mostly).

Heh- I have a theory that Lana was the Anti-Superman Army's K-Woman Red. K-Woman Red had a few lines like "If I can't have you, nobody can!" in the kind of crowd-dialogue scenes Morrison likes so much, surrounded by other villains. Anyway, there were enough of those that I buy into it. Not that I bought into it at the time, I don't even think I noticed it until after reading Action # 25, but I do think that K-Woman Red was intended to be Lana and Morrison just left it open ended because he'd rather imply her involvement than make it a big deal that she became a villain.

[Jon Clark]

He doesn't have to move on. It should be a continuous adventure in which he keeps doing what has to be done as long as it needs to be done. Superman won't stand around while civilians are murdered just because the UN or the US government says so.

Just how long is continuous? Because I'm arguing that in a lot of cases it wouldn't/shouldn't be that a dictatorship conveniently has a humanitarian government just waiting to fill the vacuum. If the story is supposed to be plausible it can't be over in even 12 issues- Superman has just gone from being about saving the world to being about the day-to-day building of it.

Superman needs to be the army/police until he can find trustworthy, experienced people to fill those roles since odds are the guys who were soldiers or police before aren't guys you want doing the job. And while he's doing that the other dictators keep doing what they were doing- unless you think Superman is going to take them all out and then try to police multiple locations/populations simultaneously.

[Francisco]

Just how long is continuous? Because I'm arguing that in a lot of cases it wouldn't/shouldn't be that a dictatorship conveniently has a humanitarian government just waiting to fill the vacuum. If the story is supposed to be plausible it can't be over in even 12 issues- Superman has just gone from being about saving the world to being about the day-to-day building of it.

Superman needs to be the army/police until he can find trustworthy, experienced people to fill those roles since odds are the guys who were soldiers or police before aren't guys you want doing the job. And while he's doing that the other dictators keep doing what they were doing- unless you think Superman is going to take them all out and then try to police multiple locations/populations simultaneously.

There's where Clark Kent gets into play. Every dictatorship has its opposition. It is regularly comprised of radicals, nutjobs and humanitarians. Clark would identify whom is whom. That's the adventure: Superman getting to know the players and maneuvering amongst them. It can take Superman 12 issues to topple the dictator while making sure the right person gets in charge and then 12 issues more making sure said person stays in charge and doesn't become a tyrant as well. That's the fun. He is faster than an speeding bullet he can be anywhere at anytime. And yes he can fail and it would be good if he fails. The important part is to actually have Superman involved and actually trying to better the world. Do you actually believe that in Syria there's just the government, Russians, Rebels and the US fighting over the country? No. There are lots of humanitarians getting the hell bombed out of them. If Superman was real he would be flying all over Aleppo deflecting bombs, destroying missiles with heat vision and pulling people out of the rubble and the dangerous areas. Hell, he might even be paying Putin a visit. If we're to believe Superman is a moral being he would take action in a situation like that.

I always hear people saying Superman shouldn't get involved in real life like events but actually I think that's the better way to make him relevant again and to have people talking and reading his adventures again.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Okay, I'll bite: how is clothing going to hide being 7'?

It seems you guys think of that 7' height as being excessive. Yeah, he'd be pretty tall, but in the end nothing abnormal for humans, I suppose. As for the clothes, those would help hide his body type, not his height. The posture is the factor that would help him hide the latter.

Since we were talking about him anyway ..

Controversial opinion about Lex Luthor:

Lex Luthor, not Bruce Wayne, is the most cunning and dangerous man on Earth. And needs to be treated as such.

Lex should be a whole lot smarter and a whole lot richer than Bruce Wayne. Lexcorp should be able to buy out Wayne Enterprises 10 times over.

Lex, always aggressively and often unethically, pursues power through influence, and influence through wealth, and wealth through innovation, and innovation through inspiration.

And Lex is never not inspired.

All the current qualities of the Batgod that make Superman fans annoyed as hell? Take them from Bruce and give them to Lex. Lex is the one who figures the Leaguers could turn against humanity and arranges contingency plans for all of them. Lex figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne on his lunch hour after thinking about it for 20 minutes.

Lex has only one weakness: he is always at high risk to lose his composure only around Superman. Supes is the only one who can make the otherwise unflappable Lex lose his shit.

Luthor should dress in all-white, like he did in those SMALLVILLE flash-forwards or in the 2007 DOOMSDAY animated movie.

Post of the day right here. Well, at least of the day it was posted.

Ah...let me add another Lex opinion...

The back story of Lex from SMALLVILLE is vastly superior to nearly every other version of his history,and should be official canon.Not every single nuance,mind you,but the general idea of Lex,son of Lionel Luthor ( who is basically Byrne's Lex Luthor albeit with hair) and heir to the Luthor dynasty, being rescued from certain death by a young Clark Kent,becoming friends before the darkness in his soul slowly drives a wedge between them. The Lex on that show and his arc is so layered and is the perfect marriage of Elliot Maggin's tragic figure of the Bronze Age and the evil robber baron of the Post Crisis era. To me it's the only Lex that works as the main nemesis of Superman as well as a supporting cast member.

Thusly,id retcon all the Post Crisis Byrne Lex stories as being Lionel,complete with the origin,his connection to Perry, the Jerry White stuff etc.

Michael Rosenbaum's Lex was *EXCELLENT*.

[dancj]

It seems you guys think of that 7' height as being excessive. Yeah, he'd be pretty tall, but in the end nothing abnormal for humans, I suppose.

According to this site there are an estimated 2800 people who are 7' or more in the world. With a population of 7 billion, that means that 0.00004% of the world is over 7' - or one person in every 2.5 million. I think that qualifies as abnormal.

[manofsteel1979]

Me too. It's not close, either, the movie's fight is a lot cooler than the one in the books.

The rest of the film after is pure bollocks,however that first part? in my head that WAS the Doomsday fight.

Heh- I have a theory that Lana was the Anti-Superman Army's K-Woman Red. K-Woman Red had a few lines like "If I can't have you, nobody can!" in the kind of crowd-dialogue scenes Morrison likes so much, surrounded by other villains. Anyway, there were enough of those that I buy into it. Not that I bought into it at the time, I don't even think I noticed it until after reading Action # 25, but I do think that K-Woman Red was intended to be Lana and Morrison just left it open ended because he'd rather imply her involvement than make it a big deal that she became a villain.

I never really noticed that! Makes sense!

[666MasterOfPuppets]

According to this site there are an estimated 2800 people who are 7' or more in the world. With a population of 7 billion, that means that 0.00004% of the world is over 7' - or one person in every 2.5 million. I think that qualifies as abnormal.

Thanks for that piece of info. I really didn't know that. I guess it was just my perception, then. Still, I think that Clark slouching would help as part of his disguise.

What site is that, BTW?

[manofsteel1979]

Michael Rosembaum's Lex was *EXCELLENT*.

I've never heard of the guy, however if he's anything like Michael ROSENBAUM, he is awesome!

I'm in the process of a Smallville rewatch now. Up to Season 3. Man he was just brilliant. He and John Glover as Lionel was just a master class in acting of two actors just playing off each other.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Ha! You're right! Editing post right now.

And yes, I agree. For some reason, I liked more evil Lionel than "reformed by Clark's spirit" Lionel (or was it by Clark's body? Or both? Can't remember), although the latter was good, too.

[Kuwagaton]

But the fight itself isn't as....wide....and imaginative as it should have been. It just isn't, and we've seen better from the same creators. At the very least it should have crossed beyond the city. It's not too hard to imagine these two throwing each other around and crossing miles in seconds. I get that part of the threat and the problem is that Clark couldnt actually move Doomsday around too much. But he did manage it a few times, and the results should have been more dramatic.

What I'm saying is that even if they fought on Mars a bit and broke the time barrier with their punches or whatever, the spectacle of Superman's full power likely wouldn't have lived up to its hype. I think what we assume he has is almost always going to be more than what we're given.

Just the one thing I would have wanted for the legacy of Superman since they did decide to go that route, is something like what the BvS movie had. A simple throwaway line about how fighting Doomsday actually made it tougher. So then what Superman would have done is overloaded it and therefore future battles wouldn't be like, "he's as strong as Doomsday!" since Doomsday in that case would be above the idea of sheer strength.

I always thought that they handled the Doomsday fight in the SUPERMAN/ DOOMSDAY animated movie Better than the comics version, particularly the end.

I think there are obvious strengths to animated films that the best comics can't match, namely sound and motion. Since this thread is controversial opinions, I'll go ahead and admit that I have little interest in the Maggin books because text alone seems worthless with this character.

But aside from that, the Suplex of Doom really didn't impress me as I saw this some time after the Busiek comic where Superman survived being knocked straight through the Earth. Also, since Superman would be well aware that going into low orbit would give him the option to basically land anywhere, I find it strange that he crashed back in Metropolis.

[Osiris-Rex]

Thanks for that piece of info. I really didn't know that. I guess it was just my perception, then. Still, I think that Clark slouching would help as part of his disguise.

But at 7' tall Clark would have to slouch so much he would end up looking like Groucho Marx. And that would just bring more attention to him.

[Francisco]

But at 7' tall Clark would have to slouch so much he would end up looking like Groucho Marx. And that would just bring more attention to him.

I think 7' tall is leaving impressive territory and getting into freakish territory. I think 6,3' or 6,6' is more than enough. He should slouch and somehow deflate his abdominal muscles to look somewhat out of shape. And change his body language.