Controversial Superman Opinions

[Stanlos]

*LOVE* For Tomorrow.

As did I. At the time of publication, I had just about HAD IT with Batman p!ssing all over Supes (and the other Leaguers too but the Supes stuff was so bad and in your face--it was even in the CARTOONS!!). Seeing Superman straight up not having it at all in FOR TOMORROW was just BLISSFUL for me!

Another thing I loved about FOR TOMORROW was the return of superintelligence/smart Superman. While not as horribly downplayed as WW's intelligence (there's a scene in JLA JSA VIRTUE & VICE that is just ABSURD!!!), Superman's intellect is SEVERELY underplayed most of the time. It reeks.

[dancj]

The writers should never actually try to come up with in-universe reasons why Superman doesn't do to Gotham what he already did for Metropolis, because there can never be a satisfying one. We just need to accept it, basically.

Considering what a terrible job they did of it in No Man's Land when Superman tried to help, I'm inclined to agree.

[JackDaw]

Considering what a terrible job they did of it in No Man's Land when Superman tried to help, I'm inclined to agree.

Yes, it was awful. After one fairly sensible way of helping was shown as an abject failure because he went at it in an half cocked way, he was reduced to farming an acre of so of land to produce veg.

Totally bonkers...you'd be disappointed if some kid fresh out of agricultural college couldn't farm a bigger acreage.

But it leads to a "controversial" Superman opinion. Stop him appearing in team comics and as a guest star in other comics. Because practically every time he's used in other comics he's shown as a prize pillock.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

As did I. At the time of publication, I had just about HAD IT with Batman p!ssing all over Supes (and the other Leaguers too but the Supes stuff was so bad and in your face--it was even in the CARTOONS!!). Seeing Superman straight up not having it at all in FOR TOMORROW was just BLISSFUL for me!

Another thing I loved about FOR TOMORROW was the return of superintelligence/smart Superman. While not as horribly downplayed as WW's intelligence (there's a scene in JLA JSA VIRTUE & VICE that is just ABSURD!!!), Superman's intellect is SEVERELY underplayed most of the time. It reeks.

Agreed. Loved the moment in which Bats takes off his mask, unable to say a word. Also, how Supes built the whole Metropia/ metropian cyborgs himself (and with personalities to boot). How awesome was that?

[Adekis]

How awesome was that?

It's cool that he could do it, but I always thought it was kind of weird and / or creepy that he did it.

[Chris24601]

There's no real reason why Superman shouldn't clean up Gotham City except that, as someone said above, Gotham needs to stay hellish for plot-reasons, and we just need to shrug. The writers should never actually try to come up with in-universe reasons why Superman doesn't do to Gotham what he already did for Metropolis, because there can never be a satisfying one. We just need to accept it, basically.

My controversial Superman opinion is that the Bat-verse and Superman should be on two different Earths. I'd take it a step further and say that DC Comics might actually work better overall if it was acknowledged to take place on multiple Earths instead of trying to mash it all together and getting that mess to work.

Kick it off with making Darkseid into a true multi-dimensional threat (Apokolips/New Genesis exist in their universe) and bring the Justice League together because the forces of Apokolips are attacking multiple Earths at once. Afterwords, the heroes agree there are some threats too big for the heroes of any one world and form the Justice League as a sort of cross-dimensional team to deal with such things and use salvaged Boom Tube technology to link them up when they need help, but not so easy that you can just pop by for a social call.

Heck, make the Teen Titans noteworthy precisely because Cyborg can so easily use his built-in Mother Box to make Boom Tubes and, as such, the young heroes are some of the few who CAN gather together just for social calls (or Young Justice via the New Genesis Supercycle being able to easily ferry them from Earth to Earth).

[DochaDocha]

My controversial Superman opinion is that the Bat-verse and Superman should be on two different Earths. I'd take it a step further and say that DC Comics might actually work better overall if it was acknowledged to take place on multiple Earths instead of trying to mash it all together and getting that mess to work.

Kick it off with making Darkseid into a true multi-dimensional threat (Apokolips/New Genesis exist in their universe) and bring the Justice League together because the forces of Apokolips are attacking multiple Earths at once. Afterwords, the heroes agree there are some threats too big for the heroes of any one world and form the Justice League as a sort of cross-dimensional team to deal with such things and use salvaged Boom Tube technology to link them up when they need help, but not so easy that you can just pop by for a social call.

Heck, make the Teen Titans noteworthy precisely because Cyborg can so easily use his built-in Mother Box to make Boom Tubes and, as such, the young heroes are some of the few who CAN gather together just for social calls (or Young Justice via the New Genesis Supercycle being able to easily ferry them from Earth to Earth).

I semi-support this idea. The only reason why I don't is because it flies in the face of tradition, but I remember liking the idea that heroes aren't from the same Earth when I first read Earth S stories.

[mathew101281]

I semi-support this idea. The only reason why I don't is because it flies in the face of tradition, but I remember liking the idea that heroes aren't from the same Earth when I first read Earth S stories.

If Batman and Superman exist on seperate earths how can you have a Justice league?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

My controversial Superman opinion is that the Bat-verse and Superman should be on two different Earths. I'd take it a step further and say that DC Comics might actually work better overall if it was acknowledged to take place on multiple Earths instead of trying to mash it all together and getting that mess to work.

Kick it off with making Darkseid into a true multi-dimensional threat (Apokolips/New Genesis exist in their universe) and bring the Justice League together because the forces of Apokolips are attacking multiple Earths at once. Afterwords, the heroes agree there are some threats too big for the heroes of any one world and form the Justice League as a sort of cross-dimensional team to deal with such things and use salvaged Boom Tube technology to link them up when they need help, but not so easy that you can just pop by for a social call.

Heck, make the Teen Titans noteworthy precisely because Cyborg can so easily use his built-in Mother Box to make Boom Tubes and, as such, the young heroes are some of the few who CAN gather together just for social calls (or Young Justice via the New Genesis Supercycle being able to easily ferry them from Earth to Earth).

DC and Marvel pretty much thrive on the fact that it is a shared universe.

[DochaDocha]

If Batman and Superman exist on seperate earths how can you have a Justice league?

That's part of the semi-support instead of fully support.

I also don't take the JL as a given as something that's good. I feel there are inherent flaws in the Justice League so while eliminating it is also flying in the face of tradition, it also means we would avoid some of the annoying stuff that comes with the JL.

However, if you elected not to eliminate the JL concept, while embracing multiple Earths, perhaps the convergence of Earths can be a semi-regular thing, like how Mr. Mxyzptlk shows up every 90 days.

[adkal]

Going by the thread on Superman 15, my controversial opinion is...

Ed Benes does some nice work.



I quite like it.

[13th Superman]

Agreed. Loved the moment in which Bats takes off his mask, unable to say a word. Also, how Supes built the whole Metropia/ metropian cyborgs himself (and with personalities to boot). How awesome was that?

Ok I thought I was alone in thinking that. Seeing him use his intelligence like in a possible hypothetical and then to make himself forget it was amazing!

[Francisco]

Ah okay. I thought you were taking it further, my bad! Yeah, with time Clark could clean up Gotham and get it to roughly Metropolis levels. The cities have different problems though, so I dont think we'd see the same style result. Gotham for instance, has corruption deep into the core of its government, whereas Metropolis' problems largely came from the private sector (Glennmorgan, Lex, Morgan Edge,etc). I think Gotham would actually be harder to clean up than Metropolis was for that reason; once Clark ran most of the corrupt businessmen out of Metropolis, the city's local government, which seemed largely just ineffective and flaccid to that point, could step in and keep that momentum going with new reforms and stuff like the SCU. Gotham on the other hand, Clark would have to pull down a lot of cops and public servants before you'd get to see any real change last. Otherwise those people would just work from the inside to keep Gotham rotten.

I wonder if Clark Kent with his investigative reporting skills couldn't bring Gotham's political corruption out in the open, forcing the federal government to take action removing the major, crooked cops and other corrupt officials? Kent doesn't run the risk of getting gunned down for shoving his nose where it doesn't belong.

[DochaDocha]

Even with the whole repertoire of Superman's abilities, it would take years for investigative reporter Clark Kent to clean up a city that were so hindered by tens or hundreds of crooked "public servants."

First, let's consider that he can't do the investigative reporter routine 24/7. Even if he doesn't fatigue, Superman duties take up a lot of his time. Those galactic conquerors aren't going to take care of themselves!

Next, even if he can see and hear everything, it's hard to obtain paper trails and physical evidence that can be legally admitted in a court of law.

Then you have to consider that corrupt bureaucracy is like an infection. You replace one crooked guy, and some opportunistic creep will take his place. Plus, these guys will do what it takes to defend themselves in classic comic book standards: threaten people around Superman. Post a story in the Daily Planet? Threaten everyone who works there. Post something online? Find a way to sabotage. Plus, these guys are going to find out stuff about Clark Kent, and even if they can't get to him, they'll find some vulnerability somewhere. It's not creative, but basically anyone with any substantive connection to Clark Kent will need to go into the equivalent of witness protection.

Moreover, even if the legal system works like it's supposed to, it's rarely been known to be speedy and efficient.

This is where I wish a movie used a more Golden Age/Morrison Superman. Because once it became clear that the bad guys would try intimidation and sabotage, GA Supes would find a way to one up those guys, and in an entertaining way I bet.

[gwangung]

Even with the whole repertoire of Superman's abilities, it would take years for investigative reporter Clark Kent to clean up a city that were so hindered by tens or hundreds of crooked "public servants."

First, let's consider that he can't do the investigative reporter routine 24/7. Even if he doesn't fatigue, Superman duties take up a lot of his time. Those galactic conquerors aren't going to take care of themselves!

Next, even if he can see and hear everything, it's hard to obtain paper trails and physical evidence that can be legally admitted in a court of law.

Then you have to consider that corrupt bureaucracy is like an infection. You replace one crooked guy, and some opportunistic creep will take his place. Plus, these guys will do what it takes to defend themselves in classic comic book standards: threaten people around Superman. Post a story in the Daily Planet? Threaten everyone who works there. Post something online? Find a way to sabotage. Plus, these guys are going to find out stuff about Clark Kent, and even if they can't get to him, they'll find some vulnerability somewhere. It's not creative, but basically anyone with any substantive connection to Clark Kent will need to go into the equivalent of witness protection.

Moreover, even if the legal system works like it's supposed to, it's rarely been known to be speedy and efficient.

This is where I wish a movie used a more Golden Age/Morrison Superman. Because once it became clear that the bad guys would try intimidation and sabotage, GA Supes would find a way to one up those guys, and in an entertaining way I bet.

Hmmm....this suggests to me that a Superman cleaning up a city works best (or only!) during his early years, with fewer duties, fewer friends to worry about and his growing reputation would help suppress corruption when it returns.