Controversial Superman Opinions

[Francisco]

Yeah, but how does yellow sunlight or red sunlight work? I bet nobody knows.

That's why I just think it's an on/off switch. If you try to talk about electro-magnetic energy powering up Superman, it starts to get hairy. Superman could get power from a flashlight--and he could be disabled if someone puts red cellophane over the flashlight.

To me yellow sunlight has never been a good enough explanation for Superman's powers. I think there are lots of factors involved. Heavy gravity, thin atmosphere, evolutive adaptations, genetic manipulation, electromagnetic energy absorption/storing etc. Once Clark is out of Krypton he simply can't be depowered ever again unless he is exposed to Kryptonite. All those weaknesses related to the color of the sunlight are nonsensical. imo. Why Kryptonians didn't explore the universe? Krypton was surrounded by the phantom zone. Everyone who attempted to leave the planet got trapped there for eternity. Jor El discovered a way to traverse the zone and escape the planet "giganormic" gravity pull. The Phantom zone also negated most of the enormous psychokinetic and psionic powers of the Kryptonians while living in Krypton.

[The World]

-If they changed Krypto's design to that of a Welsh Sheepdog or an Australian Shepherd and replaced the cape with a red neckerchief with the Superman crest on it. Well I'd be more than okay.

-The scenes of Superman saving kittens are pretty meaningless if his attitude towards war amounts to "Nothing I can do."

[Stanlos]

I don't know how controversial is this opinion, but here we go, i think that most of us agreed that Mongul is kind of lame and without much of a personality. He’s a rip-off of Thanos, who himself is a rip-off of Darkseid, making Mongul essentially Not Not Darkseid. Yeah he is the bad guy in "For The Man Who Has Everything" and "Exile". But reading the 90s Superman comics, I think the whole Superman Team is in the know that he’s just a glorified jobber. After those 2 storylines he ends up as a henchman to Brainiac in the Panic In The Sky arc, then to Cyborg Superman in the Death of Superman arc. The dude is not a power player. He exists to have the real bad guys cow him into submission to show how bad they are, and for the good guys to use as a punching bag.

Does that make him useless as a character? I’d argue no. having a Not Darkseid, with his own Not Apokolips even, is a handy thing. Are you writing a story where Darkseid gets handed a defeat without a truly epic amount of build-up? Give it to Mongul. No one’s gonna complain about Mongul getting his ass handed to him. Honestly, power level wise, Darkseid should be the Ivan Drago to Superman’s Rocky. And that’s Part 1 Rocky, when he wasn’t eating thunder and crapping lightning. Superman should be the underdog to him. The entire Justice League should be an underdog when it comes to him.

True, he’s supposed to end up in a one-on-one with Orion that could go Orion’s way, so he’s not omnipotent, and there’s only so much you can do when powerhouses like Superman and Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel and Green Lantern and the Flash and Supergirl and four other Green Lanterns, etc etc, are hitting you before you and the planet you’re standing on should be kaput, but that’s why Darkseid generally doesn’t throw himself into a fight with even odds. Mongul will, Mongul’s an idiot, but Darkseid will at least brainwash someone into being a servant of chaos first.

Flash is considered a "powerhouse"?

[Ascended]

Flash is considered a "powerhouse"?

Oh yeah.

Any time a big Crisis event shows up, one of the first things that has to happen is getting Flash out of the way because he's *that* powerful. He can run at light speed, which means he generates enough mass to hit as hard as Superman (or close to it). He can vibrate his molecules and travel alternate dimensions by matching frequencies. Travel through time by bouncing off the Speed Force. Become intangible. And Flash has a laundry list of physics-based tricks at his disposal like creating tornadoes or a wind vortex strong enough to ground all but the most powerful fliers. Some Flashes can absorb kinetic energy; meaning bullets, people, anything that moves freezes in place. And that extra energy? Just makes Flash faster. Or he can lend that extra speed to others. You thought fighting the JLA was tough? Wait until Flash freezes you in place and then makes all the other Leaguers super-fast.

It's not just the raw power though, its also Flash's penchant for screwing with time. Flashpoint was not the first time history got changed because a Flash decided to alter the past. So when you got someone who can time travel just by running down the street (on top of everything else) and is more than willing to do so, you gotta take him seriously.

I don't have issue numbers handy, but go check out the story where Wally West runs back in time to the Crisis on Infinite Earths. You know that scene where every hero from dozens of different realities (including several Kryptonians) is fighting the Anti-Monitor and the best they can do is a stalemate? Wally runs into that fight and literally tears the Anti-Monitor apart so quickly that no one, including the various Super-people and Flashes, even sees him there.

[Jim Kelly]

In terms of electro-magnetic radiation, the difference between red and yellow is very slight--

Electromagnetic_Specta_Chart.jpg

--It might be a big deal to human beings, but hardly a big deal for the physical laws of the universe (and our sun isn't even yellow, it's white).

-If they changed Krypto's design to that of a Welsh Sheepdog or an Australian Shepherd and replaced the cape with a red neckerchief with the Superman crest on it. Well I'd be more than okay.

-The scenes of Superman saving kittens are pretty meaningless if his attitude towards war amounts to "Nothing I can do."

Personally, I like the way Krypto looks.

Superman has his priorities straight, kittens are what's important--after the next World War they will create a better planet.

[daBronzeBomma]

More controversial opinions/ideas:


- FOR THE MAN WHO HAS EVERYTHING is not the best Superman story. Honestly, I no longer think it even belongs in the Top 10. None of Superman's true supporting cast is present, just 3 Justice Leaguers. And it shows Superman in nothing close to the best light, just overvaluing a fantasy on Krypton instead of his life on Earth. It has aged poorly.



- John Henry Irons should start out as Lex Luthor's professional sidekick, the Robin to Lex's Batman. 20something Lex would have recognized teenage John Henry's natural brilliance and took him under his wing. The "Bald Brothers" would have been Metropolis's best and brightest entrepreneurial partnership (think of Lex as Steve Jobs and John Henry as his younger Steve Wozniak). Lex, being Lex, always made sure John Henry knew who was the Senior Partner, but John Henry would always let it slide. John Henry is Lex's right-hand man, and becomes wealthy by investing his generous salary very wisely and shortly becomes a billionaire in his own right (not much compared to Lex's fortune, but enough to withstand any of Lex's future pettiness, say $10 billion compared to Lex's $100+ billion). John Henry is aware of Lex's petty demeanor towards his enemies and takes steps to protect himself should they ever have a falling out. Which they do ... as soon as Kal publicly debuts as Superman. John Henry, who was kinda cynical to begin with and thanks to Luthor, only became more so, realizes now (thanks to Superman's example) that power doesn't always have to corrupt and that power can actually be truly selfless and not always selfish. This leads to the break-up of the Bald Brothers. John Henry quits Lexcorp and hops over to STAR Labs as their new CEO. He quickly is entrusted with and safeguards Kal's Secret.

This CEO position also gives John Henry the role of bankrolling anything Kal may need to legally purchase (basically: bye bye Bruce Wayne, you won't be purchasing the Daily Planet nor Clark's apartment building anytime soon in this scenario)



- Speaking of Ol' Pointy Ears, It's time to kill off the WORLD'S FINEST as a concept and marketing ploy as a whole. It has become so ridiculously one-sided that the interaction actually damages the Superverse brand. In the last 30 years, no Superverse character has gained anything positive by interacting with their counterpart Batverse characters. Bruce has to make Kal look dumb. Tim has to make Connor look dumb. I'm sure Babs would have to make Kara look dumb. I forgot, did Dick make Lar look bad when they were both on the replacement JL that one run?

Anyway, No Superverse nor Batverse characters should be teammates on the Justice League or Titans either (i.e. remove them both from the roster and let Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, Aquaman and the Martian shine instead). The concept has only benefited one side. And it's not the Superverse side. It's time for it to die (or spend the next 30 years balancing the scales by having the Superverse characters always getting the last word ... yeah, that's not happening, so die it is).

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The Kryptonians at large seemed to consider space travel a bad thing. Maybe there was some past experience that led them to this. Stephen Hawking apparently has a great fear of other aliens discovering our intelligent life. Maybe the the Kryptonians didn't want to draw attention to themselves.

If the planet was big and full of resources and had science to solve all their problems, there wouldn't have been the kind of pressures we have on Earth that would drive them to explore other worlds. If they could explore the universe without leaving their planet (via probes, advanced detection methods, etc.), they may not have considered it worth the risk.

There could be some psychological reason that would cause advanced people to turn inward--exploring their inner space--rather than branching outward to the stars. Smart people are like that--they have all kinds of emotional problems--or so I've heard.

Yes. There was a reason for Kryptonians to stay on Krypton, which led to their extinction. In my head canon, and a la Man Of Steel, they were an interstellar race once, long ago, but something prompted to seclude themselves on their homeworld and from the rest of the cosmos. And this is where things can get messy. It would have to be a very well-thought reason.

This is one of the things that confused me when I got into comics initially and wasn't familiar with the concept of alternate continuities and such. It was perplexing that in some tellings Jor and Lara seemed to know that Clark would be all super under a yellow sun. Other tales would talk of Kryptonian space explorers. Then there was this public knowledge about how powerful Kryptonians were.

The headscratcher for me is if Yellow Sun Kryptonian had ever been why would the planet or at least the culture ever die? Why would they not all go to a system with a yellow sun? In any case, I remain confused about the why's of each of those.

Jor-El not only sent Kal to save him, but to save the Kryptonian culture itself. As for your question, in most origins there is a reason for Kryptonians not being able to escape Krypton's doom. I remember Cary Bates' excellent Elseworlds story, "Last Family Of Krypton", in which Jor-El and Lara manage to escape Krypton with his son. But I guess that is as much as we'll get (yeah, in my mind New Krypton never happened).

Yeah, but how does yellow sunlight or red sunlight work? I bet nobody knows.

That's why I just think it's an on/off switch. If you try to talk about electro-magnetic energy powering up Superman, it starts to get hairy. Superman could get power from a flashlight--and he could be disabled if someone puts red cellophane over the flashlight.

Didn't Scott Snyder's "Superman Unchained" deal with this to some extent?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

-The scenes of Superman saving kittens are pretty meaningless if his attitude towards war amounts to "Nothing I can do."

It's not like saving kittens is among Supes' priorities, but you got a point there.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

More controversial opinions/ideas:


- FOR THE MAN WHO HAS EVERYTHING is not the best Superman story. Honestly, I no longer think it even belongs in the Top 10. None of Superman's true supporting cast is present, just 3 Justice Leaguers. And it shows Superman in nothing close to the best light, just overvaluing a fantasy on Krypton instead of his life on Earth. It has aged poorly.



- John Henry Irons should start out as Lex Luthor's professional sidekick, the Robin to Lex's Batman. 20something Lex would have recognized teenage John Henry's natural brilliance and took him under his wing. The "Bald Brothers" would have been Metropolis's best and brightest entrepreneurial partnership (think of Lex as Steve Jobs and John Henry as his younger Steve Wozniak). Lex, being Lex, always made sure John Henry knew who was the Senior Partner, but John Henry would always let it slide. John Henry is Lex's right-hand man, and becomes wealthy by investing his generous salary very wisely and shortly becomes a billionaire in his own right (not much compared to Lex's fortune, but enough to withstand any of Lex's future pettiness, say $10 billion compared to Lex's $100+ billion). John Henry is aware of Lex's petty demeanor towards his enemies and takes steps to protect himself should they ever have a falling out. Which they do ... as soon as Kal publicly debuts as Superman. John Henry, who was kinda cynical to begin with and thanks to Luthor, only became more so, realizes now (thanks to Superman's example) that power doesn't always have to corrupt and that power can actually be truly selfless and not always selfish. This leads to the break-up of the Bald Brothers. John Henry quits Lexcorp and hops over to STAR Labs as their new CEO. He quickly is entrusted with and safeguards Kal's Secret.

This CEO position also gives John Henry the role of bankrolling anything Kal may need to legally purchase (basically: bye bye Bruce Wayne, you won't be purchasing the Daily Planet nor Clark's apartment building anytime soon in this scenario)



- Speaking of Ol' Pointy Ears, It's time to kill off the WORLD'S FINEST as a concept and marketing ploy as a whole. It has become so ridiculously one-sided that the interaction actually damages the Superverse brand. In the last 30 years, no Superverse character has gained anything positive by interacting with their counterpart Batverse characters. Bruce has to make Kal look dumb. Tim has to make Connor look dumb. I'm sure Babs would have to make Kara look dumb. I forgot, did Dick make Lar look bad when they were both on the replacement JL that one run?

Anyway, No Superverse nor Batverse characters should be teammates on the Justice League or Titans either (i.e. remove them both from the roster and let Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, Aquaman and the Martian shine instead). The concept has only benefited one side. And it's not the Superverse side. It's time for it to die (or spend the next 30 years balancing the scales by having the Superverse characters always getting the last word ... yeah, that's not happening, so die it is).

Oh, this sounds pretty cool. And helps keep the Superverse self-contained. I mean, not dependent on the batverse, which would be very nice.

Great ideas there.

[The World]

Personally, I like the way Krypto looks.

Superman has his priorities straight, kittens are what's important--after the next World War they will create a better planet.

I do too but since Clark is suppose to be this guy from the farm I always thought it would be cool if he had a Lassie like super dog.

[Stanlos]

Oh yeah.

Any time a big Crisis event shows up, one of the first things that has to happen is getting Flash out of the way because he's *that* powerful. He can run at light speed, which means he generates enough mass to hit as hard as Superman (or close to it). He can vibrate his molecules and travel alternate dimensions by matching frequencies. Travel through time by bouncing off the Speed Force. Become intangible. And Flash has a laundry list of physics-based tricks at his disposal like creating tornadoes or a wind vortex strong enough to ground all but the most powerful fliers. Some Flashes can absorb kinetic energy; meaning bullets, people, anything that moves freezes in place. And that extra energy? Just makes Flash faster. Or he can lend that extra speed to others. You thought fighting the JLA was tough? Wait until Flash freezes you in place and then makes all the other Leaguers super-fast.

It's not just the raw power though, its also Flash's penchant for screwing with time. Flashpoint was not the first time history got changed because a Flash decided to alter the past. So when you got someone who can time travel just by running down the street (on top of everything else) and is more than willing to do so, you gotta take him seriously.

I don't have issue numbers handy, but go check out the story where Wally West runs back in time to the Crisis on Infinite Earths. You know that scene where every hero from dozens of different realities (including several Kryptonians) is fighting the Anti-Monitor and the best they can do is a stalemate? Wally runs into that fight and literally tears the Anti-Monitor apart so quickly that no one, including the various Super-people and Flashes, even sees him there.

That line of reasoning doesn't work for.me. Superman (and the other powerhouses) ALSO have light speed capabilities PLUD many physical powers that the speedster does not possess

[Ascended]

That line of reasoning doesn't work for.me. Superman (and the other powerhouses) ALSO have light speed capabilities PLUD many physical powers that the speedster does not possess

Take it up with DC, I dont write em.

But as I said, its not just the raw power; its also Flash's willingness to screw with time and/or the cosmic balance; the lack of restraint. Superman and most other heroes who are capable of cosmic manipulation (either through natural means or through technology) typically dont actually use those abilities, and when they do they're crazy careful about it.

Flash? Not even a little bit of caution. He'll pull versions of himself from the past or future in to help him, creating an army of time traveled speedsters, re-write history, and typically he doesnt put much thought or care into how the ramifications will affect everyone. He's reckless, and pushing him to use his abilities to the utmost is dangerous for every living thing in the multiverse. He's been responsible for at least three alterations to time that I can think of, the New52 among them. Not many villains are even capable of that sorta thing, let alone successfully pulled it off.

And really, I've never seen anyone else capable of destroying the Anti-Monitor in under a picosecond. Not even Superman in the Silver Age was that kind of powerful.

[stephens2177]

No, it is not. Except for DC and the writers, who apparently are unable to see it.

BTW, I wouldn't think all of his supersenses come from that solar battery thing. Actually, I'd only include heat vision in that list.

The solar battery thing IMO justs amps his already SUPER physical abilities,plus the side effect of absorbing the energy which is heat vision.

There is no way the Kryptonians were the most advanced race in the universe. Not even close. If they had been they would have moved their whole race to a planet with a yellow sun.

Oh plz the more advanced a race is the more they act odd as hell to us puny humans.not to mention the kryptonians in some versions couldn't even handle being around each other,why would they want to be around space folk.advanced civilizations make themselves rules to live by,you might like them or agree with them,but they do what they think is right for their species.

To me yellow sunlight has never been a good enough explanation for Superman's powers. I think there are lots of factors involved. Heavy gravity, thin atmosphere, evolutive adaptations, genetic manipulation, electromagnetic energy absorption/storing etc. Once Clark is out of Krypton he simply can't be depowered ever again unless he is exposed to Kryptonite. All those weaknesses related to the color of the sunlight are nonsensical. imo. Why Kryptonians didn't explore the universe? Krypton was surrounded by the phantom zone. Everyone who attempted to leave the planet got trapped there for eternity. Jor El discovered a way to traverse the zone and escape the planet "giganormic" gravity pull. The Phantom zone also negated most of the enormous psychokinetic and psionic powers of the Kryptonians while living in Krypton.

Kryptonite should be a poison type weakness,not a power draining weakness.let Parasite be supermans one true weakness.

Oh yeah.

Any time a big Crisis event shows up, one of the first things that has to happen is getting Flash out of the way because he's *that* powerful. He can run at light speed, which means he generates enough mass to hit as hard as Superman (or close to it). He can vibrate his molecules and travel alternate dimensions by matching frequencies. Travel through time by bouncing off the Speed Force. Become intangible. And Flash has a laundry list of physics-based tricks at his disposal like creating tornadoes or a wind vortex strong enough to ground all but the most powerful fliers. Some Flashes can absorb kinetic energy; meaning bullets, people, anything that moves freezes in place. And that extra energy? Just makes Flash faster. Or he can lend that extra speed to others. You thought fighting the JLA was tough? Wait until Flash freezes you in place and then makes all the other Leaguers super-fast.

It's not just the raw power though, its also Flash's penchant for screwing with time. Flashpoint was not the first time history got changed because a Flash decided to alter the past. So when you got someone who can time travel just by running down the street (on top of everything else) and is more than willing to do so, you gotta take him seriously.

I don't have issue numbers handy, but go check out the story where Wally West runs back in time to the Crisis on Infinite Earths. You know that scene where every hero from dozens of different realities (including several Kryptonians) is fighting the Anti-Monitor and the best they can do is a stalemate? Wally runs into that fight and literally tears the Anti-Monitor apart so quickly that no one, including the various Super-people and Flashes, even sees him there.

The Flash is WAY to powerful,he should have the speed,have the vibration,and cool speed tricks,but NOT time or multiverse travel abilities,that is insane without some form of strict rules or consequences if he uses them.

Take it up with DC, I dont write em.

But as I said, its not just the raw power; its also Flash's willingness to screw with time and/or the cosmic balance; the lack of restraint. Superman and most other heroes who are capable of cosmic manipulation (either through natural means or through technology) typically dont actually use those abilities, and when they do they're crazy careful about it.

Flash? Not even a little bit of caution. He'll pull versions of himself from the past or future in to help him, creating an army of time traveled speedsters, re-write history, and typically he doesnt put much thought or care into how the ramifications will affect everyone. He's reckless, and pushing him to use his abilities to the utmost is dangerous for every living thing in the multiverse. He's been responsible for at least three alterations to time that I can think of, the New52 among them. Not many villains are even capable of that sorta thing, let alone successfully pulled it off.

And really, I've never seen anyone else capable of destroying the Anti-Monitor in under a picosecond. Not even Superman in the Silver Age was that kind of powerful.

I want superman to be 1 step above every other powerhouse,as in physically superior to Billy batson,which leaves Billy with his magic to differentiate him from superman and gives him a chance.flash should be as fast on foot,but not able to punch as hard as superman or survive things only invulnerable beings should be able to do.wondwr woman should be 1 to 3 times lower in physical power compared to superman,so her fighting skill and magical weapons differentiate and gives her a chance.martian manhunter should not have any power that superman has besides flight,and his should be through density control.you want him as strong and tough as superman you have him shapeshift into a freaking hulk monster or use his density control,don't use actual super strength and invulnerability.they guy should have telepathy,shapeshift,density control,invisibility,intangibility,and flight,nothing else,and all controlled and by his mind and focus.

[Stanlos]

The solar battery thing IMO justs amps his already SUPER physical abilities,plus the side effect of absorbing the energy which is heat vision.




Oh plz the more advanced a race is the more they act odd as hell to us puny humans.not to mention the kryptonians in some versions couldn't even handle being around each other,why would they want to be around space folk.advanced civilizations make themselves rules to live by,you might like them or agree with them,but they do what they think is right for their species.






Kryptonite should be a poison type weakness,not a power draining weakness.let Parasite be supermans one true weakness.




The Flash is WAY to powerful,he should have the speed,have the vibration,and cool speed tricks,but NOT time or multiverse travel abilities,that is insane without some form of strict rules or consequences if he uses them.



I want superman to be 1 step above every other powerhouse,as in physically superior to Billy batson,which leaves Billy with his magic to differentiate him from superman and gives him a chance.flash should be as fast on foot,but not able to punch as hard as superman or survive things only invulnerable beings should be able to do.wondwr woman should be 1 to 3 times lower in physical power compared to superman,so her fighting skill and magical weapons differentiate and gives her a chance.martian manhunter should not have any power that superman has besides flight,and his should be through density control.you want him as strong and tough as superman you have him shapeshift into a freaking hulk monster or use his density control,don't use actual super strength and invulnerability.they guy should have telepathy,shapeshift,density control,invisibility,intangibility,and flight,nothing else,and all controlled and by his mind and focus.

How do you arrive at such a relationship? I ask because you said "SHOULD" which for me always conjures notions of factual accuracy or some authoritative source. And from a historical real world perspective I don't know how you arrive at anything like that for Wonder Woman. She is the one superhero who was conceived from the start with the notion of physical dominance or supremacy in place (her original name was "Suprema, the Wonder Woman" in fact).

If that is a preference, fine. But saying 'should', like that is 'right' or 'correct', I have to challenge that. Even though it is 2017, the design for Wonder Woman is still quite a bit ahead of society.

[Agent Z]

The solar battery thing IMO justs amps his already SUPER physical abilities,plus the side effect of absorbing the energy which is heat vision.




Oh plz the more advanced a race is the more they act odd as hell to us puny humans.not to mention the kryptonians in some versions couldn't even handle being around each other,why would they want to be around space folk.advanced civilizations make themselves rules to live by,you might like them or agree with them,but they do what they think is right for their species.






Kryptonite should be a poison type weakness,not a power draining weakness.let Parasite be supermans one true weakness.




The Flash is WAY to powerful,he should have the speed,have the vibration,and cool speed tricks,but NOT time or multiverse travel abilities,that is insane without some form of strict rules or consequences if he uses them.



I want superman to be 1 step above every other powerhouse,as in physically superior to Billy batson,which leaves Billy with his magic to differentiate him from superman and gives him a chance.flash should be as fast on foot,but not able to punch as hard as superman or survive things only invulnerable beings should be able to do.wondwr woman should be 1 to 3 times lower in physical power compared to superman,so her fighting skill and magical weapons differentiate and gives her a chance.martian manhunter should not have any power that superman has besides flight,and his should be through density control.you want him as strong and tough as superman you have him shapeshift into a freaking hulk monster or use his density control,don't use actual super strength and invulnerability.they guy should have telepathy,shapeshift,density control,invisibility,intangibility,and flight,nothing else,and all controlled and by his mind and focus.

So Flash is too powerful but your Superman isn't?