Controversial Superman Opinions

[stephens2177]

...And that's why I think that his powers are in serious need of some retooling.

It's easy,but they don't want to do it.they like to deliver him to human levels for story purposes (ugh),and they want all those weaknesses,just because,or for even more story purposes.

Superman is a SUPER man all the time,but turns into a sun demi god under a sun that's not from his native planet system.kryptonite hurts his body,red sun doesn't charge him,and there are multiple energy weapons and powers that can be used to deflate his ultimate sun powers.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It's easy,but they don't want to do it.they like to deliver him to human levels for story purposes (ugh),and they want all those weaknesses,just because,or for even more story purposes.

Superman is a SUPER man all the time,but turns into a sun demi god under a sun that's not from his native planet system.kryptonite hurts his body,red sun doesn't charge him,and there are multiple energy weapons and powers that can be used to deflate his ultimate sun powers.

Yeah, in essence that's the deal going on at the DC offices. Apparently when they don't have enough imagination, they resort to that depowering crap, under the excuse of "we want to explore what it really means to be a hero". BS.

As for the powers themselves, I'd go a bit further than that. I think his alien side needs to stand out.

[gwangung]

Yeah, in essence that's the deal going on at the DC offices. Apparently when they don't have enough imagination, they resort to that depowering crap, under the excuse of "we want to explore what it really means to be a hero". BS.

As for the powers themselves, I'd go a bit further than that. I think his alien side needs to stand out.

Hmmm...maybe.

It occurred to me that a close analog to Superman are Korean/Chinese American adoptees. They have a distinctive character that dynamically identifies themselves based on environment. And they often take classes (with varying reactions) on their birth nation and birth languages. They're very identified with being Americans, but they bring some unique perspectives to the table.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

That's a cool way to do it, from the cultural/societal perspective, and it would be interesting to see it developed. It would be nice to see Kal, alone in his Fortress, reading ancient Kryptonian texts/ holograms/ whatever, and interacting with his father's AI about the different aspects of Kryptonian culture and Kal's own Kryptonian ancestry.

OTOH, there's pretty much been zero emphasis on the biological side of Superman's alienness. And I think it's something worth exploring.

[Stanlos]

It's easy,but they don't want to do it.they like to deliver him to human levels for story purposes (ugh),and they want all those weaknesses,just because,or for even more story purposes.

Superman is a SUPER man all the time,but turns into a sun demi god under a sun that's not from his native planet system.kryptonite hurts his body,red sun doesn't charge him,and there are multiple energy weapons and powers that can be used to deflate his ultimate sun powers.

I have read that a lot in this thread and it has caused a need for clarification for me. Everything I have in my collection has Superman under a red son or under the influence of the green kryptonite 'lose his powers' and what remains is more comparable to HUMANS than say Tamaranians. In fact they all have him as being human level when his 'powers' are out.

So my question becomes this: is the notion that Superman bereft of his powers is superhuman but much less than his standard superhuman a fan opinion or is it in earlier lore but was changed over time?

[Jim Kelly]

So my question becomes this: is the notion that Superman bereft of his powers is superhuman but much less than his standard superhuman a fan opinion or is it in earlier lore but was changed over time?

In earlier lore Kryptonians were superhuman (but not as superhuman as Superman on Earth). By 1945 Kryptonians were normal humans on their home planet.

I'm not sure I'd want to throw out all the stories where Superman finds himself having to get by as a normal human being.

[Stanlos]

In earlier lore Kryptonians were superhuman (but not as superhuman as Superman on Earth). By 1945 Kryptonians were normal humans on their home planet.

I'm not sure I'd want to throw out all the stories where Superman finds himself having to get by as a normal human being.

Thanks as always for the insight, Jim!!

[daBronzeBomma]

More Controversial Superverse Opinions ...

There are too many redundant supporting characters in the Superverse (and really in most comic book superhero franchises).

There should be only one Kara. Kara Zor-El, daughter of Zor-El and Alura In-Ze. However, Kara Zor-El arrives on Earth and is given the name Karen Starr. She starts out as a 14-year-old Supergirl under Kal-El's (who himself would be around 28 years old at this time) adult supervision, but down the road (upon her 21st or 22nd birthday at the latest), she sheds the "Supergirl" identity as too juvenile and takes on the role of "Power Gal" (note it's not "girl" nor is it "woman", basically the female equivalent of "guy").

Now, if the DCU must always have a Supergirl in the same way it appears to always need a Robin, then fine, bring on Linda Danvers aka Matrix as Supergirl II after Kara becomes Power Gal. By the time Linda would outgrow the SuperGIRL label, it's time for yet another hard-reboot Crisis.

[Agniwolf]

now this will be controversial

Kal and kara should be a couple instead of whoever each other has romantic feelings for, and Jon should be their offspring instead of Lois. the problem of being the last ones from their species is simply trampled "because of the heart". they are Adam and Eve in another planet. yes, they should feel love for other people or even get in a relationship with those at some point for a short period. but at the end of the day, they are the last of their species so they getting together for survival is only "natural"

"oh, but they are cousins, it is incest" should not matter when they are the last thing keeping their species going extinct (yes while Kara did not exist they were, in fact, extinct because Kal-El would/should not be able to reproduce with a human)

[stephens2177]

I have read that a lot in this thread and it has caused a need for clarification for me. Everything I have in my collection has Superman under a red son or under the influence of the green kryptonite 'lose his powers' and what remains is more comparable to HUMANS than say Tamaranians. In fact they all have him as being human level when his 'powers' are out.

So my question becomes this: is the notion that Superman bereft of his powers is superhuman but much less than his standard superhuman a fan opinion or is it in earlier lore but was changed over time?

Yes DC just makes Clark powerless,but it's nonsense on so many levels for this to be when krypton being a harsh planet to adapt to,super advanced species genetic perfection goals,and somehow can unlock being sun demi gods when away from their star system I can't just believe that he has all that going for him,but he still drops to 0,which is our level.

If a human was on krypton,1st they would be blind,then fried,then crushed,while kryptonians are walking around normal like we do on earth,that means when they get off tat planet they are gonna be SUPER,just not on their planet.

Not super (golden age) on krypton
Not super(sun powers) in native star system
Off krypton they should be at golden age
Outside native star system should have sun powers
That's how I see it,or want it written in stone.

[DochaDocha]

"oh, but they are cousins, it is incest" should not matter when they are the last thing keeping their species going extinct (yes while Kara did not exist they were, in fact, extinct because Kal-El would/should not be able to reproduce with a human)

Well, here's the problem with that attitude.

Let's say two first-degree cousins, one male and one female, are the last surviving people on Earth. So, they say to themselves, "We have to procreate, for the survival of our species!" So they have one son and one daughter. Now, the onus on keeping humanity from extinction falls on these two kids, who are both siblings and second cousins, to keep the human race going. That hardly seems fair to demand that a couple of siblings have to procreate for the fate of mankind. And then their kids have to continue the cycle, ad infinitum.

Face it: if humanity ever falls below a certain number, we as a species are toast. Just pack up your things and go home. The same should apply for Kal and Kara.

[Jon Clark]

I have read that a lot in this thread and it has caused a need for clarification for me. Everything I have in my collection has Superman under a red son or under the influence of the green kryptonite 'lose his powers' and what remains is more comparable to HUMANS than say Tamaranians. In fact they all have him as being human level when his 'powers' are out.

So my question becomes this: is the notion that Superman bereft of his powers is superhuman but much less than his standard superhuman a fan opinion or is it in earlier lore but was changed over time?

In addition to what Jim pointed out about the super-Kryptonians in the early stories there is also the Silver Age explanation for the powers. Krypton was supposed to be a heavy gravity world and at least a portion of Superman's powers were tied to that. I can recall at least one story where under a yellow sun Superman was exposed to Kryptonian gravity and lost powers like flight while retaining others. A few places including Action #500 even offered charts of which powers came from the yellow sun and which came from Earth's lower gravity.

When they introduced the red/yellow sun idea around 1950 the idea was to explain why Supergirl's home of Argo City being a small asteroid-like chunk didn't produce super-Kryptonians due to its lower gravity. Since the main point was to keep these people unsuper they explained that the yellow sun was needed to activate even the powers that came from lower gravity. Which boiled down to saying Neil Armstrong of Krypton wouldn't have leaped any further on the Moon than he did on Earth. Doesn't make sense but it was why Superman became no more powerful than the average human under a red sun.

Since I never liked that pseudo-science that made yellow stars necessary for powers based on gravitational differences, I've always thought that the powers tied to solar radiation should be separate from those tied to gravity in regards to what it takes to weaken them.

On the kryptonite front I've seen the Silver Age logic where Green-K only works on powered Kryptonians (including the need to create the concept of anti-K to explain times he was effected before they added that twist). I've seen the Byrne explanation that it depowered his cells. And I've seen stories where Superman could be killed by kryptonite but retained his invulnerability to bullets as well as the use of K-bullets to bypass his invulnerability. I think the actual effects of kryptonite vary from writer to writer )if not story tp story) sometimes. So I don't know that there is any set definition of how it works. For me, I prefer the idea it basically leaves him to weak to exercise the powers (like starvation or exhaustion) but doesn't negate the actual physical reasons the powers are there (so he retains his physical toughness minus anything solar that augments it).

[FishyZombie]

now this will be controversial

Kal and kara should be a couple instead of whoever each other has romantic feelings for, and Jon should be their offspring instead of Lois. the problem of being the last ones from their species is simply trampled "because of the heart". they are Adam and Eve in another planet. yes, they should feel love for other people or even get in a relationship with those at some point for a short period. but at the end of the day, they are the last of their species so they getting together for survival is only "natural"

"oh, but they are cousins, it is incest" should not matter when they are the last thing keeping their species going extinct (yes while Kara did not exist they were, in fact, extinct because Kal-El would/should not be able to reproduce with a human)

Bad Luck Kal-El

4P1gNgnh.jpg

Heh, in all seriousness though, assuming they were dedicated to trying to save their species despite having no home planet and lack of a sustainable genepool, I think they'd resort to maybe freeing some of those phantom zone prisoners or do something with those kandor people before resorting to incest.

[Agniwolf]

Well, here's the problem with that attitude.

Let's say two first-degree cousins, one male and one female, are the last surviving people on Earth. So, they say to themselves, "We have to procreate, for the survival of our species!" So they have one son and one daughter. Now, the onus on keeping humanity from extinction falls on these two kids, who are both siblings and second cousins, to keep the human race going. That hardly seems fair to demand that a couple of siblings have to procreate for the fate of mankind. And then their kids have to continue the cycle, ad infinitum.

Face it: if humanity ever falls below a certain number, we as a species are toast. Just pack up your things and go home. The same should apply for Kal and Kara.

what you said is true and many myths of humanity revolves around it, a couple is responsible for the human race to come by, so there will be at least 3 generations interbreeding before they branch out

there is also the question fishyzombie brought forth, however that would mean that they either enter a compromise with Zod and alike, or they would "rape" (could be the physical act or simply they steal genomes from them) those same people. so not superman ever

[Jim Kelly]

Superman's relationship with Supergirl did get weird sometimes in the '60s.

But now that the idea has been introduced, I think this would make a good mature readers imaginary story. There's evidence that we're attracted to people with whom we may share some genetics. Being raised in the same family creates another feeling in us that argues against this attraction. But siblings raised in different homes and only meeting later in life are known to be attracted to one another.