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  1. #1261
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    That Hoechlin Superman is a clown and shouldn't be looked at as a good interpretation of the character. He's an embarrassment.
    Last edited by The World; 06-17-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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  2. #1262
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I know in some ways it's what Morrison was indicting with his deliberately grimdark "Last Knight of Tomorrow", the Tulpa Superman of Earth 45, but I honestly thought that the Doomed Superman-Doomsday Hybrid, during the period when Kal had control and could turn his Doomsday mode on and off, was really cool. Part of me kind of hoped it'd stay in his system after the crossover ended and he'd be able to bust it out as a limit-breaker, much like they later did with the Super-Flare.
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  3. #1263
    Spectacular Member Chris24601's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    "Superman as the real identity, Clark Kent as the secret identity" is the real, original interpretation of the character and was botched in favor of what was essentially a Marvelization of the character in an attempt to make him more relatable.
    Not actually true.

    A huge influence on the perception of which identity was real was the Radio series that really pushed his popularity beyond just the comics. In that series he didn't arrive on Earth until he was an adult (i.e. he went from infant to adult in complete isolation except for the robot intelligence that instructed him) and only as an adult did Kal-El adopt the name Clark Kent. The radio drama was the original origin of the classic intro that included "...disguised as Clark Kent..." because that was true for the radio drama.

    But the original Golden Age version written by S&S called himself Clark Kent in his thought bubbles even when in uniform, as did many of the comics' captions.

    Only later as the comics entered the Silver Age, elements of the Radio drama got incorporated and Krypton got fleshed out with things like having Superboy regularly use a "Kryptonian Learning Helmet" on the insistence of Ma Kent so that he would know about his native culture and other such things (including that Kryptonians had perfect memory as an infant and so could perfectly speak Kryptonian from hearing Jor-El and Lara speak it and remembered how his father's workshop looked, etc.) did it change from the raised as a human Clark Kent disguised as Superman to Kal-El disguised as Clark Kent.

    My controversial opinion is that Superman (and comics as an industry) probably would have been better off if S&S had not had so much corporate meddling in the property. S&S wanted to push their story forward with Lois learning Clark's secret all the way back in 1941 (i.e. after just three years) and become his partner in crime fighting. Instead the corporate suits nixed the plan because Superman was just becoming popular and they didn't want to muck up the current dynamics of the series by changing the status quo.

    Imagine what the comics industry would look like today if the blueprint for Superhero comics was NOT the unchanging status quo Superman establish, but a regular progression of the characters where they live, get married, start families, have their children grow up and eventually pass on their mantle to an heir that S&S were originally writing. Imagine if the present Superman was actually the grandson of Kal-El with his own life and supporting cast or that Bruce Wayne married Selina Kyle and retired 60 years ago with the title passing on to Dick who takes on Bruce's son as his Robin, who becomes Batman himself and finds his own Robin in a succession where many of the Batmen were Wayne's descendants, but not all.

    Maybe it wouldn't be objectively better than what we have now, but it certainly wouldn't take reality warping crises every 5-20 years to try and make sense of the universe either because Kal-El would have landed around 1918 not 1982, Diana and the Justice Society could have fought in WW2 and yet still not be the original superheroes (with some elaborate backstory to explain why people don't remember them and think Superman is the first). The conventions of the costume designs and other bits of superhero lore that made sense back in the day don't need a contrived explanation now because they originated in times when those conventions made logical sense (i.e. the circus strongman costume and such).

  4. #1264
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    That Hoechlin Superman is a clown and shouldn't be looked at as a good interpretation of the character. He's an embarrassment.
    Why? Cause he got beat up by his cousin?

  5. #1265
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    By the time of the Legion of Super-Heroes almost every human being on Earth will be descended from the House of El.

    I reason this because over a thousand year period, doing the math, the lines of descendents cross over so much that it's bound to happen. And now that we know Superman can have kids, that means he and Kara can each have more kids. There's also natural selection on their side. Having Kryptonian DNA will be a competetive advantage. So it's not just Laurel Kent or Kent Shakespeare--the El DNA will be shared by everyone on Earth. And possibly in the United Planets--which might explain why so many people in the future have a super-power. But for most people it will be like Neanderthal DNA or Denisovan DNA--it's there but not enough to make most fully Kryptonian.

  6. #1266

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    I prefer the Fortress of Solitude to be underground.

    Also, I don't know if it's ever had one, so correct me if it has, but the Fortess should have some kind of a library, presumably containing alien texts and lore.

  7. #1267

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    Superman: The Animated Series should have wrapped up with the cancelled season where he redeemed himself to the world. Cramming a storyline with that level of importance into Justice League, which already had enough subplots to balance, was a disservice to that version of the character.
    Last edited by CharlesInCharge; 06-19-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  8. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Why? Cause he got beat up by his cousin?
    He's a clown, everyones arguing whether or not Snyder's Superman could have found another way but this moron couldn't have even found an answer in the first place. It's hilariously apropos that Supes fanbase is actually holding this guy up as a good example of Superman, its exactly like I was saying in the other thread, it's the only fanbase where the people that don't see much value to the character have as much say as the people that do. And thats because the words over powered or boring or no personality give us night terrors rather than just being words from the peanut gallery like it should.

    Literally any Supes from the comics would have schooled this fool even the ones that are weaker than him. He gets a Super F.
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  9. #1269
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris24601 View Post
    But the original Golden Age version written by S&S called himself Clark Kent in his thought bubbles even when in uniform, as did many of the comics' captions.
    He called himself Clark in his own mind, but he was absolutely Superman.

    Why did he work as a reporter? Because it furthered Superman's goals. Who wore the mask? Clark Kent. Was he really quiet and shy like Clark, or assertive and boisterous like Superman? He was assertive and boisterous, and often forgot to keep the "mild mannered" disguise in place as Clark.

    "A rose by any other name...." as it were. He called himself Clark because that was the name he grew up knowing. But in personality and drive and desire? In other words, all the things that count? He was Superman.

    But I dont think we can compare the early Golden Age stories to what came afterwards and still be honest. We're largely comparing apples and oranges. The target audiences were different, the sensibilities were different. Back in the day there wasn't a divide in his psyche, he was just a badass named Clark who acted like (and truly was) a Superman except when he had to keep his secrets. There was no difference between "Superman" and "Clark" in the same way there's no difference between "Hal Jordan" and "Green Lantern."

    The idea of the divide grew out of seeds the Golden Age planted, but back in the day? He was a Superman who grew up with a different name. That's it. It didnt go any deeper than that because the tales weren't designed for adult literary analysis.
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  10. #1270
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    My interpretation of the Golden Age Supes was that Superman was Clark Kent unfettered and uncensored. How he really felt about injustice and crime came through as Superman and that was his lifes work.

    Also Supes from the radio show kicks ass man my kind of Superman racism aside.
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  11. #1271
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    Maybe it's the names that gets everyone confused, when we say that Superman is the real guy and Clark Kent is the disguise. Obviously this isn't true if you're literal about it, because Clark Kent is the name on his driver's license and that's the name he's had for most of his life, while Superman is an assumed name. What we're really trying to say is that the weak, cowardly twit is the disguise and the powerful, brave hero is the real guy.

    I shouldn't even have to say this. It's obvious. Whether he's dressed up as Clark or Superman--when he's doing heroic stuff it's clear that's the real guy. The disguise is when he tries to fool people into not realizing he can do all these great things--so when he acts cowardly that's a clear tip off, but so is just wearing glasses or not calling attention to himself. He's trying to disguise his true nature.

  12. #1272
    Incredible Member ekrolo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    My interpretation of the Golden Age Supes was that Superman was Clark Kent unfettered and uncensored. How he really felt about injustice and crime came through as Superman and that was his lifes work.

    Also Supes from the radio show kicks ass man my kind of Superman racism aside.
    That's the kind of Supes/Clark dynamic that works best. Clark being the more tactful side whereas Superman is him unchained.

  13. #1273
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekrolo2 View Post
    That's the kind of Supes/Clark dynamic that works best. Clark being the more tactful side whereas Superman is him unchained.
    Yeahhhhh. Always try the polite way first. If they ignore you, well, you can't say you weren't warned....

    (And the character dynamics works, too. That's how WE would act...and that's ties into the wish fulfillment part of superheroes....)

  14. #1274
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    He's a clown, everyones arguing whether or not Snyder's Superman could have found another way but this moron couldn't have even found an answer in the first place. It's hilariously apropos that Supes fanbase is actually holding this guy up as a good example of Superman, its exactly like I was saying in the other thread, it's the only fanbase where the people that don't see much value to the character have as much say as the people that do. And thats because the words over powered or boring or no personality give us night terrors rather than just being words from the peanut gallery like it should.

    Literally any Supes from the comics would have schooled this fool even the ones that are weaker than him. He gets a Super F.
    It would help if you actually explained how he's a "clown"

  15. #1275
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I shouldn't even have to say this. It's obvious. Whether he's dressed up as Clark or Superman--when he's doing heroic stuff it's clear that's the real guy. The disguise is when he tries to fool people into not realizing he can do all these great things--so when he acts cowardly that's a clear tip off, but so is just wearing glasses or not calling attention to himself. He's trying to disguise his true nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    He called himself Clark in his own mind, but he was absolutely Superman.
    You can use these arguments to say that Byrne's version of the character is "really Superman" and not "really" Clark, and being "really" Clark is the thing Byrne's version is most famous for.

    Isn't the name he calls himself in his own mind worth taking into consideration as a part of the equation?

    Here's one that's not too controversial, but I think never said often enough: When Superman and Batman are out on the job and Bats calls Superman "Clark", it drives me nuts. When Superman and Lois are on a date and she calls him "Superman", it drives me nuts. It's "Kal". His name is Kal. Clark is his name too, but if he's not "being Clark", then he should be Kal to his friends and loved ones, not Clark, not Superman. I don't think of Clark as a disguise or as a compulsion or a hobby. Superman really is Clark Kent! But like Kal-El, Clark is a state of being, and moreover Clark's a state of being who doesn't wear a cape.

    Jon can still call him "Dad" I guess. Maybe a time-traveling Ultra Boy can slip and call him Superboy, that'd be kind of funny.
    Last edited by Adekis; 06-20-2017 at 02:28 AM.
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