Jean Grey Solo creative team announced

[Jerk Chicken]

Where does it say that exactly? It would be dumb to have her fight against the PF. You cannot avoid your destiny, JEEEENN!

One of the articles mentioned her fighting back.

The current day Marvel brass has not been interested in Jean Grey having the Phoenix (they saved it for their pet X-Man) and I don't believe that has changed, but we'll see.

Hopeless does talk about letting her be badass, so that's a good sign, Phoenix or not.

[rutog98]

I understand what you mean. But consider this also: many posters are still arguing that the O5 need to go back to the past else the present will be changed. They complain that they take risks and so endanger their past and the present.

We all know that Phoenix is, or rather should be, in the future of Jeen. Bendis started to distantiate Jeen from it but that's not enough: The encounter with the PF is still an event that is in the future of Jeen and so people still expect it to happen, by whatever plot device. The only way to go past that is to address that encounter and move past it. At that point, it won't be anymore Something that should happen in Jeen's future but something that already happened, in (hopefully) a different way, in her past.

This is no longer true. Jeen has been brought to the future way after the Dark Phoenix Saga meaning the PF is not necessarily in her future anymore unless she is sent back in time before the events that led to the whole Phoenix Saga. Also, with all the convoluted turns the whole Phoenix Force drama has taken over the past few decades, its no longer a "Jean" thing. Any old Tom, Dick, or Harry can be a host to the PF now.

[WallStreeter]

someone actually made a prediction to me that this book will be lucky to make it to issue 5 and will be canned by issue 6(with hopeless blaming it on Sexist Pigs)

I'm sorry but Did Jean Grey Suddenly stop being one of the most iconic x-men characters or something? because there's now way her book is quickly canned and the character's swept under the rug(as I'm Being Told)

Scarlet Witch has made it to issue 14. There's no way Jean Grey is getting canned after 5 to 6 issues.

And for the record I will be one of those buying the book.

Jeen gets her own book at the same time she leads the X-Men Blue because the next X-Men film is about Phoenix.

Marvel coordinates the comics with the films, as they always do.

They did Civil War II right after Civil War hit the movie theaters.

[WallStreeter]

This is no longer true. Jeen has been brought to the future way after the Dark Phoenix Saga meaning the PF is not necessarily in her future anymore unless she is sent back in time before the events that led to the whole Phoenix Saga. Also, with all the convoluted turns the whole Phoenix Force drama has taken over the past few decades, its no longer a "Jean" thing. Any old Tom, Dick, or Harry can be a host to the PF now.

Hopeless has just said it in her future, and he is writing the book, meaning he is writing it in her future.

http://movieweb.com/next-xmen-movie-...hoenix-reboot/

Many websites are saying the next film will be about Phoenix, and that's why Marvel is pushing Jean Grey right now, since we have a Jeen in the films as well.

[Narasinha]

This is no longer true. Jeen has been brought to the future way after the Dark Phoenix Saga meaning the PF is not necessarily in her future anymore unless she is sent back in time before the events that led to the whole Phoenix Saga.

Read what I wrote: I said "should be". Most readers expect that the O5 need to go back to the past and live their previous life because if they don't, based on logic, the present will be changed. In theory, that is still possible even if finding a credible explanation seems more and more unlikely. Nearly everyone expect that, sooner or later, Jeen will become Phoenix. On way to change is to have Jeen have a "near miss" with the Phoenix.

I never said that the Phoenix is exclusive to Jean. I said that it's an important element of the character. Really. you should try to read what people write. Nobody is trying to make the same kind of claims that you always do about Storm.

By the way, Jeen was bought to the future way _before_ the Dark Phoenix Saga. The O5 were taken from the time of the original UXM #8.

Anyway, as I said in another post, the Phoenix stuff seems to be a background element to drive the main plot which look like to be a kind of coming of age for Jeen. She is going to do things because she think the Phoenix will one day come. It doesn't mean that the story will be about Jeen becoming Phoenix.


Edit:
There can be 3 broad outcomes:
1. The book end before any kind of resolution with the Phoenix plot. In that case, Jean's past, as Phoenix, is still a possibility that will loom in her future.

2. Jean becomes Phoenix and we get a "Phoenix story". It may or not happen in a similar way to her original past. It may or not have the same outcome.

3. Jean has a kind of confrontation, or "near-miss", with the Phoenix but she doesn't become Phoenix (she tell it to go play elsewhere or whatever). We don't get a "Phoenix story" but we get something else.

The third outcome is what happened in NmH: Jeen met Dark Phoenix and the Phoenix. She was even part of it for a short time but then it released her and they parted their way. The only problem in NmH, is that the Phoenix was used as a deus ex machina to resolve the plot and put back everything as it was at the begining of the story.

[rutog98]

Read what I wrote: I said "should be". Most readers expect that the O5 need to go back to the past and live their previous life because if they don't, based on logic, the present will be changed. In theory, that is still possible even if finding a credible explanation seems more and more unlikely. Nearly everyone expect that, sooner or later, Jeen will become Phoenix. On way to change is to have Jeen have a "near miss" with the Phoenix.

I never said that the Phoenix is exclusive to Jean. I said that it's an important element of the character. Really. you should try to read what people write. Nobody is trying to make the same kind of claims that you always do about Storm.

By the way, Jeen was bought to the future way _before_ the Dark Phoenix Saga. The O5 were taken from the time of the original UXM #8.

The claims I make about Storm are based on canon. I don't just make stuff up. That's first. Secondly, this whole thing with the O5 being in the present and learning all that has transpired up to this point should have already changed the future (from their time) unless they are mindwiped of everything they have learned up till this point before being sent back. Given what the O5 knows now, when they are eventually sent back to the past, they could go back in time and use their knowledge of the future to change the circumstances that led to Phoenix Force Jean Grey happening in the first place and then it would no longer be an aspect of her life meaning it will no longer be an important element of her character. It just might be something they do, too, to avoid the whole Dark Phoenix debacle.

The only thing I'm saying is Jean/Phoenix stories are tired. There is no reason to retread that path with yet another Phoenix Force story here in the present.

Here is part of my post on the subject in another thread that I think is relevant here: 'Trying to bill a Jean/Phoenix story as being unique and something to look forward to is not only tired, but its no longer relevant because of Excalibur, Morrison, and AvX. Its like trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Good luck with that. If Thanos were attacking the Earth, if the Phoenix Force wanted to inhabit a host to stop him, it could literally choose anybody to operate as its host. Its not restricted to Jean or Rachel. So, what's the point in doing anymore Jean/Phoenix stories? We already have those. On top of that, its been done to death. I honestly don't see anything else that can be done with the PF unique to Jean that can't be done with any other character at this point. I'm just tired of the whole Phoenix Force altogether if truth be told.'

I think many other readers are tired of this same path being retreaded as well.

[WallStreeter]

Here's hoping Hopeless has Teen Jean meeting Hope Summers, Rachel Grey and has a long conversation with the Scarlet Witch.

That would be interesting to have those conversations.

[WallStreeter]

The claims I make about Storm are based on canon. I don't just make stuff up. That's first. Secondly, this whole thing with the O5 being in the present and learning all that has transpired up to this point should have already changed the future (from their time) unless they are mindwiped of everything they have learned up till this point before being sent back. Given what the O5 knows now, when they are eventually sent back to the past, they could go back in time and use their knowledge of the future to change the circumstances that led to Phoenix Force Jean Grey happening in the first place and then it would no longer be an aspect of her life meaning it will no longer be an important element of her character. It just might be something they do, too, to avoid the whole Dark Phoenix debacle.

The only thing I'm saying is Jean/Phoenix stories are tired. There is no reason to retread that path with yet another Phoenix Force story here in the present.

Oh if they go back in time they cannot change the past so Jean Grey doesn't become Phoenix. The Phoenix/Jean Grey saved the universe from destruction before becoming Dark Phoenix if that didn't happen the universe is destroyed.

Rachel as Phoenix also did important things such as come back from the future, change her future, take Cable into the future, overthrow Apocalypse, and Cable became a key figure in the X-Men comics. Like it or not the Phoenix is an important part of the X-Men history.

[rutog98]

Oh if they go back in time they cannot change the past so Jean Grey doesn't become Phoenix. The Phoenix/Jean Grey saved the universe from destruction before becoming Dark Phoenix if that didn't happen the universe is destroyed.

Rachel as Phoenix also did important things such as come back from the future, change her future, take Cable into the future, overthrow Apocalypse, and Cable became a key figure in the X-Men comics. Like it or not the Phoenix is an important part of the X-Men history.

1) They could simply find another way to fix the breach in the M'kraan Crystal instead of using the PF. Regarding that other stuff you mentioned, there are other ways to accomplish those things without the PF as well. The only point I was raising is the PF does not necessarily have to be a part of Jeen's future if she is sent back in time (its up to the whim of the writer here) and it certainly doesn't have to be a part of her immediate future right now while she is in the present. I am not so concerned about her past right now in trying to undo the Dark Phoenix Saga and all as my concern is about the present. If they do a Phoenix Force Jeen thing, how long will it be before it starts affecting the other x-books with yet another Phoenix Force crossover event? BORING!

2) I never said the Phoenix was not an important fixture in the X-Men mythos, it is, but Jean/Phoenix stories are tired. There is no reason to rehash that with Jeen right now except there is really nothing else to do with the character. That's why we keep getting the same old rehashes with the Summer/Grey clan about evil clones, time traveling family members (seriously, at this point, are there any members of the family who wasn't involved in some kind of time traveling?), the Phoenix Force, and love triangles involving Jean, Scott and some other third party (Logan or Emma). I went back and edited my previous post.

As I stated earlier, its as if Marvel is just rolling a dice to decide which member of the Summer/Grey clan gets a clone next, or gets the PF next, or time travels next, etc. Its just a bunch of unoriginal rehashed stuff and its tired.

[Narasinha]

The claims I make about Storm are based on canon. I don't just make stuff up.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. (who care anyway?)

Secondly, this whole thing with the O5 being in the present and learning all that has transpired up to this point should have already changed the future (from their time) unless they are mindwiped of everything they have learned up till this point before being sent back.

That's what common logic would suggest. It still doesn't prevent many readers for believing that they should go back to prevent changes to the present. And you know, it's Marvel: They don't really care about such little details. If they stay in the present, it's a problem. If they go back to the past, it's also a problem. Marvel will just do whatever they want, come-up with a flimsy excuse (if they even bother), and say that "continuity or logic shouldn't go in the way of a good story".

then it would no longer be an aspect of her life meaning it will no longer be an important element of her character.

Try to understand that when I say that "the Phoenix is an important part of the Jean Grey character", I am not refering to her personality. I am refering to " a person in a novel, play, or film".

They can go back all they want and change things all they want in the story. But they can't make readers forget what they read. Even if "this Jean" never meet Phoenix, the Phoenix will always be a part of the history of this character.

The only thing I'm saying is Jean/Phoenix stories are tired. There is no reason to retread that path with yet another Phoenix Force story here in the present.

And again, who said it's a Phoenix story? The interview make it sound like the Phoenix is a background element that justify the story: It's about Jean doing things to grow-up and become more like her adult self. Why she does it? Because she know/think that the Phoenix is coming and she need to be read for it.

If Thanos were attacking the Earth, if the Phoenix Force wanted to inhabit a host to stop him, it could literally choose anybody to operate as its host.

That's totaly beside the point but yes, there is something different to Jean, compared to those various hosts: With all those hosts, it's the PF, an external entity, that comes and inhabit/possess them. In the case of Jean, since she waked-up from the cocoon at least, she was writen as being a part of the Phoenix. Or the Phoenix being a part of her. In Revolution (the comic), Cable tell Jean: "Only the Phoenix could do this" and she answers "and who you think I am?". At no point there is an external entity that comes to inhabit or possess Jean. Even during Morrison's run, it was described as Jean's own power growing and Jean "becoming" a part of the Phoenix. Again, there wasn't an external entity that came and possessed her or gave her power. As shown in Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong, Jean transcended and became a part of the Phoenix. (and, by definition, transcending is something that comes from yourself. It's not something that can come from an external source)

But one more time, I don't think it's what is going to happen in this book and I don't think it will be a "Phoenix story". It will be a "Jean Grey coming to term with her legacy and confronting her future" kind of story.

[Narasinha]

1) They could simply find another way to fix the breach in the M'kraan Crystal instead of using the PF. Regarding that other stuff you mentioned, there are other ways to accomplish those things without the PF as well.

Yeah, and Storm wasn't needed for anything either because there are other ways to accomplish what she did. But in both case, the history wouldn't be the same and so the present would probably be very different. (like if Marvel really care about such details)

all as my concern is about the present. If they do a Phoenix Force Jeen thing, how long will it be before it starts affecting the other x-books with yet another Phoenix Force crossover event?

You just spent several posts arguing that there is nothing special with Jean and the Phoenix. That just about anyone can be used instead of Jean and be a host and now you say that they need a Phoenix Jean to do another PF event? Make your mind! You said it yourself, they don't need Jean for that!

[rutog98]

Yeah, and Storm wasn't needed for anything either because there are other ways to accomplish what she did. But in both case, the history wouldn't be the same and so the present would probably be very different. (like if Marvel really care about such details)



You just spent several posts arguing that there is nothing special with Jean and the Phoenix. That just about anyone can be used instead of Jean and be a host and now you say that they need a Phoenix Jean to do another PF event? Make your mind! You said it yourself, they don't need Jean for that!

What I was arguing is there was a special bond between Jean and the Phoenix Force at the beginning, but that has been nullified by Excalibur, Morrison, and AvX which all established that many people can host the PF with the latter basically saying pretty much anybody can fill the role as host. Also, I did not contradict myself at all. Go back and reread what I posted and the context in which I made my assertions. It looks like they are gearing up for another Phoenix Force Jean (or in this case, Jeen) event and that is tired. That is what I said. I never stated they needed Jean Grey specifically for another Phoenix event, but it looks like they are choosing her for one right now. I'm tired of both the Phoenix Force and Jean Grey.

Honestly, the fact that the PF is even rearing its head in this story is old and tired. Its time for all versions of Jean to die and stay dead, to be frank. I'm tired of the rehashed stuff. Writers are always trying to play with the idea of "Maybe this is it, you guys, maybe Phoenix is coming back to Jean Grey," or they go through with it and give her the PF followed by killing her. Its not exciting and it hasn't been in a long time. Its boring.

[rutog98]

That's totaly beside the point but yes, there is something different to Jean, compared to those various hosts: With all those hosts, it's the PF, an external entity, that comes and inhabit/possess them. In the case of Jean, since she waked-up from the cocoon at least, she was writen as being a part of the Phoenix. Or the Phoenix being a part of her. In Revolution (the comic), Cable tell Jean: "Only the Phoenix could do this" and she answers "and who you think I am?". At no point there is an external entity that comes to inhabit or possess Jean. Even during Morrison's run, it was described as Jean's own power growing and Jean "becoming" a part of the Phoenix. Again, there wasn't an external entity that came and possessed her or gave her power. As shown in Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong, Jean transcended and became a part of the Phoenix. (and, by definition, transcending is something that comes from yourself. It's not something that can come from an external source)

But one more time, I don't think it's what is going to happen in this book and I don't think it will be a "Phoenix story". It will be a "Jean Grey coming to term with her legacy and confronting her future" kind of story.

1) Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force are two separate entities. No matter how much you may wish this were not the case, it is. When the PF chooses to "merge" with her, they are merely two separate entities sharing the same body or something like that. In AvX, when the Phoenix Five were possessed by the PF, they were possessed by the PF itself, not Jean Grey. The person of Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force entity itself cannot be used interchangeably. If Iceman becomes possessed by the Phoenix Force tomorrow, he will not be possessed by Jean Grey. He will only be possessed by the PF. Got it? Jean and Phoenix are still two separate beings no matter how they are merged and the PF can choose to leave Jean whenever it chooses.

2) In Morrison's run, Jean was very much described as being possessed by the Phoenix Force. Hence, when she confronted Emma over her psychic affair with Scott, she telekinetically threw Scott out of the room, sealed the door shut behind him with her TK, and then told Emma, "Now its just you, me, and the Phoenix." In other words, Jean was possessed by the Phoenix Force. So, yes, in a way, Jean and Phoenix were the same because of a possession, but they were also separate entities. Jean is merely a woman in her 20s while the PF is as old as creation.

[Narasinha]

No matter how much you may wish this were not the case,

I don't "wish" anything. I just read and enjoy story. Contrary to some people, I don't need to constantly put a character on a pedestal and belittle others to be able to enjoy him/her.

Jean is merely a woman in her 20s while the PF is as old as creation.

And Storm is merely a woman in her 20 but that's not exactly what you constantly bore us with.

Its time for all versions of Jean to die and stay dead, to be frank. I'm tired of the rehashed stuff.

Do you even realize how your attitude is annoying to other fans? Do you want me to say that I think its time for all versions of Storm to die and stay dead? Her story is only rehashed stuff anyway. And just to troll you, I will add that her credibility is already dead now after the last few months /smirk

[rutog98]

I don't "wish" anything. I just read and enjoy story. Contrary to some people, I don't need to constantly put a character on a pedestal and belittle others to be able to enjoy him/her.



And Storm is merely a woman in her 20 but that's not exactly what you constantly bore us with.

I'm not the one claiming Storm is a different entity that who she is nor do I have to devalue any other character to prop up Storm. She has the feats and everything on the merits of her own power without any tech, cosmic tweetie bird, or any other external source boosting her powers. Can I help it if other people try and make outlandish claims like "Jean Grey is the Phoenix Force. They are not two separate beings, but one singular being" just to try and give her powers to compete with Storm?

Anyway, this is not a Storm thread. Enough about her. Back to Jean Grey.