Confusion about the whole Rebirth/DCnU earth

[colonyofcells]

Since dc decided to create in story explanations for the rebirth unboot that is ongoing for 2 years, it can cause confusion for some newer customers maybe. If the 10 lost years are restored, I would guess that abra kadabra sending Wally to the speed force maybe will be put right before Flashpoint so when new 52 started, people did not remember old Wally.

[WTNew]

Rebirth is straightening out some issues that I didn't like in the New52, but I would have been perfectly happy with an event that went like this:

Hey, ya'll. We messed up with this New52 reboot, so next month we are wrapping up all our story lines and the month after that, we are starting over with new number ones that will feature the most familiar versions of our most iconic characters and some new versions of some of our lesser known characters. Sort of like what we did at the start of the Silver Age. We're calling this event um... New Stuff with a Familiar Feel, but with Some Bold New Ideas! Yay!

[thefiresky]

Rebirth is straightening out some issues that I didn't like in the New52, but I would have been perfectly happy with an event that went like this:

Hey, ya'll. We messed up with this New52 reboot, so next month we are wrapping up all our story lines and the month after that, we are starting over with new number ones that will feature the most familiar versions of our most iconic characters and some new versions of some of our lesser known characters. Sort of like what we did at the start of the Silver Age. We're calling this event um... New Stuff with a Familiar Feel, but with Some Bold New Ideas! Yay!

This is literally what Rebirth is... But you also can't pretend like n52 didn't happen, it's part of "the familiar" version comic book readers know. You have to remember that n52 picked up alot of fresh readers. In this aspect, I am failing to see your point.

[Maxi]

This month's Titans issue had the Speed Force in the form of Linda talking to Wally and saying that he should let go of the memories of the past to forge a new future with her.

More proof the the old continuity isn't coming back.

[Atomic Man]

For the case of Superman dad, he does seem to have come from another earth that still exists in the multiverse. At the end of convergence, multiverse Brainiac (pre flashpoint brainiac who survived flashpoint) said everyone's alternate earth was saved and everyone can go home to their respective earths. I would guess that multiverse Brainiac went back to being plain vanilla brainiac of pre flashpoint so the pre flashpoint earth seems to exist somewhere in the multiverse. My guess is the next coie remake will merge earth 0 with the pre flashpoint earth.

Superman just thinks he's from a different earth. He's yet to discover that he's currently on his own earth, just altered.

colonyofcells, see this comment for the answer.

[Atomic Man]

For the case of Superman dad, he does seem to have come from another earth that still exists in the multiverse. At the end of convergence, multiverse Brainiac (pre flashpoint brainiac who survived flashpoint) said everyone's alternate earth was saved and everyone can go home to their respective earths. I would guess that multiverse Brainiac went back to being plain vanilla brainiac of pre flashpoint so the pre flashpoint earth seems to exist somewhere in the multiverse. My guess is the next coie remake will merge earth 0 with the pre flashpoint earth.

Yeah, I have read the books. I'm still not completely sold but it looks pretty promising. When Crisis on Infinite Earths happened, I think that most readers understood why it had to happen. Comic fans wanted more continuity and deeper storylines than just the old school one-shots (like Marvel was doing). There were certainly changes that some didn't like but it was an exciting time and fans knew what D.C. was doing.

Cue new 52 . . . what the heck was the purpose . . . to change the downward direction of sales? To go back to square one? What was it? A lot of longtime fans left for good with that one. On these boards, it seems kind of equal between those who liked new 52 and those who hated it but out in the wild a ton of people who bought stacks of D.C. comics regularly quit. Dan Didio noted than one of the reasons why they were doing Rebirth is that, at Comic-Con, there were hardly any questions being asked by the fans. He saw that the devoted, longtime fans who would always bunt questions and make the gatherings a lively time were gone. All you could hear was crickets.

So far, they have - like they did with COIE - made the direction clear. I am wary of this bunch. I don't trust them. But we'll see. Whatever the case, my point is that this whole Rebirth thing needs to conclude in a clear way with a clear direction. I do not mind a reboot as long as there is a purpose. We'll see if they have a clear direction when all this is over. As for now, I am skeptical but patient. We'll see . . .

It's a popular misconception that COIE "had" to happen. Granted, I'm looking at COIE with the hindsight of 30 years and a general audience that is much more genre savvy now than it was then, but the truth is, the Multiverse was itself the solution to the "problem" of the Multiverse. Had COIE simply ended with the creation of a new, "ground zero" Earth and continuity shut off from and ignorant of the rest of the Multiverse, we wouldn't be here right now. "New Earth" would have been a true tabula rasa, while the rest of the beloved and well-known Earths would have still been "out there," just inaccessible and unknown to the denizens of New Earth. Of course, you could have some characters know the Multiverse is still out there (we saw this with Psycho Pirate and others, anyway), but for all intents and purposes, there would be just one Earth upon which the then-new DCU would be established.

When the need (editorial whimsy/fan outcry) for the Multiverse's return arose, DC could have easily had some of the pre-COIE characters (Earth-1 Superman, Supergirl perhaps) cross over and slowly, the Multiverse could have been reintroduced to the extent DC wanted it to be.

Instead, we get adjustment after adjustment. I love Rebirth and the idea that the pre-Flashpoint Earth still exists, albeit altered by cynicism and a loss of love (great meta commentary), but I think Flashpoint (and parts of IC and Convergence) were truly awful and unnecessary.

[beetee]

It's a popular misconception that COIE "had" to happen. Granted, I'm looking at COIE with the hindsight of 30 years and a general audience that is much more genre savvy now than it was then, but the truth is, the Multiverse was itself the solution to the "problem" of the Multiverse. Had COIE simply ended with the creation of a new, "ground zero" Earth and continuity shut off from and ignorant of the rest of the Multiverse, we wouldn't be here right now. "New Earth" would have been a true tabula rasa, while the rest of the beloved and well-known Earths would have still been "out there," just inaccessible and unknown to the denizens of New Earth. Of course, you could have some characters know the Multiverse is still out there (we saw this with Psycho Pirate and others, anyway), but for all intents and purposes, there would be just one Earth upon which the then-new DCU would be established.

When the need (editorial whimsy/fan outcry) for the Multiverse's return arose, DC could have easily had some of the pre-COIE characters (Earth-1 Superman, Supergirl perhaps) cross over and slowly, the Multiverse could have been reintroduced to the extent DC wanted it to be.

Instead, we get adjustment after adjustment. I love Rebirth and the idea that the pre-Flashpoint Earth still exists, albeit altered by cynicism and a loss of love (great meta commentary), but I think Flashpoint (and parts of IC and Convergence) were truly awful and unnecessary.

Absolutely this 100%! Stop treating the multiverse/history of the DCU as a perpetual problem than as a solution!

[colonyofcells]

Depending on how much of pre flashpoint is restored by the restoration of the 10 lost years, it may or may not make sense to continue to have a pre flashpoint earth in the multiverse. Convergence seems to have shown the various pre flashpoint time periods as several earths. There seemed to be one earth where Hal Jordan continued to be Parallax. Maybe there is an earth where Hal Jordan continued to be Spectre. The cover of dc universe rebirth previews seem to suggest that the multiverse still has the old pre coie earth 1 and old pre coie earth 2. In my own head canon, nothing is ever erased and my multiverse still has the pre coie earth s, earth x, wildstorm earth, etc.

[Clark_Kent]

Didn't Johns' Darkseid War make it clear that N52 Earth was the same Earth as Pre-Flashpoint? I seem to recall Metron giving a crash course history lesson, using phrases like "reality became altered", "reality changed again", stuff like that. He didn't say anything about switching to a new universe in the multiverse. So I'm not sure why anyone would still think that Pre-Flashpoint is a different Earth than New 52, or that Superman is a "refugee" when he is actually on his own Earth.

Unless I'm mis-remembering Darkseid War.

Also, Infinite Crisis (also written by Johns) established that Kryptonite had no fatal effect on Kryptonians fromalternate Earths, when our Batman attempted to use the K-ring on Kal-L. Hasn't Kryptonite been shown in Rebirth to affect Superdad? So again, the theory that PF-Earth is out there somewhere seems strange to me.

[Lee]

Didn't Johns' Darkseid War make it clear that N52 Earth was the same Earth as Pre-Flashpoint? I seem to recall Metron giving a crash course history lesson, using phrases like "reality became altered", "reality changed again", stuff like that.

That is correct. It was presented that way in Flashpoint #5 as well. And DCU Rebirth.

Convergence is what muddied the water (although IIRC it did say "timelines" rather than "universes"). Maybe we'll have a better explanation of Convergence in Superman Reborn.

[colonyofcells]

Dc tends to use the morphing reality explanation more probably to encourage fans of the old reality to also support the new reality. My own head canon tends to have more earths in the multiverse. I do not believe pre coie earth 1 sort of morphed into post coie earth 0, or pre flashpoint morphed into new 52.

[Dataweaver]

It's a Hypertime concept which I call quantum twinning: whenever a timeline-altering event occurs, the timeline splits, with one of the resulting twin timelines continuing on as if nothing had happened while the other twin timeline incorporates the changes.

[Lee Stone]

I just hope that when Action Comics #1000 comes out and the new DCUniverse is stabilized, we'll have a concrete understanding of the 'past' and the 'present' which anyone can easily grasp.
Something that when someone says, 'it looks to me that the universe is such-and-such' Didio will say, 'exactly correct' instead of 'that's one way to look at it'.

The biggest issue DC has had since Flashpoint/New52 is that it's more confusing than it ever was before, even after Crisis.
They just need to bury the horse and move on to telling stories that don't involve 'fixing reality', 'changing the timeline' or 'rebooting/retconning'.

I hope that after Action #1000, we'll see a long period of stability where the main events of each year are focused on actual character plots instead of metafiction mumbo-jumbo.

[sustainentropy]

I just hope that when Action Comics #1000 comes out and the new DCUniverse is stabilized, we'll have a concrete understanding of the 'past' and the 'present' which anyone can easily grasp.
Something that when someone says, 'it looks to me that the universe is such-and-such' Didio will say, 'exactly correct' instead of 'that's one way to look at it'.

The biggest issue DC has had since Flashpoint/New52 is that it's more confusing than it ever was before, even after Crisis.
They just need to bury the horse and move on to telling stories that don't involve 'fixing reality', 'changing the timeline' or 'rebooting/retconning'.

I hope that after Action #1000, we'll see a long period of stability where the main events of each year are focused on actual character plots instead of metafiction mumbo-jumbo.

Johns always weaves things together well so that everything counts, so I have a feeling everything will matter post-Rebirth. Like you I think I've had my fill of continuity altering events for the next 20 years though. I just want a coherent history of the DC Universe and some entertaining stories that move forward. Is that too much to ask DC?

[colonyofcells]

Ever since coie, dc has sort of become addicted to these altering reality stories that seem to go on and on. Dc reality is unable to get some rest.