Confusion about the whole Rebirth/DCnU earth

[Colossus1980]

You know what's also tremendoulsy frustrating? Trying to discuss anything comics related with someone and being constantly interrupted by someone claiming that everybody that doesn't fit your absurdly low standards for enjoyment - and preferences - is ridiculous, or a fanboy, or whatever.

You can barely tell the difference among writers? We get it. You "don't care" who is Flash, or Green Lantern, or whichever character? We also get it. You like being a disruptive presence, trying to belittle people for liking what they like? Everyone gets that, at this point.

What I find odd out about the poster is if he doesn't care about continuity, doesn't care about writers, doesn't care if a character is being replaced or who is being used for a character, why just stick with DC? If all he cares about are good stories being told, that shouldn't stop him from reading DC ONLY. There are good story runs from other publishers. It really doesn't make sense to me.

[MajorHoy]

Haha! I've only collected and read parts of GA, SA, BA and so on and was planning to stop at Flashpoint. Hopefully caught up by 2030.
Have been VERY tempted by others on the board to give Rebirth a shot with various titles and go past my sell imposed 2011 cutoff.
But boy! Trying to read and understand on these threads and posts what Rebirh is for and how new 52 had all kinds of problems and changing things, etc.

I blame the internet for all the problems / confusion readers seem to be having.
As I've mentioned before, back in the last century, when we didn't have the comic book shops, the tpb collections, etc., you just bought what recent issues you found and started reading stories from there. (And back then, they gave very brief explanations in editor's notes or in the dialogue as to what important tidbits you needed to know from previous stories to enjoy the current one.)
But that was a simpler time. I'm not sure if modern writing styles and the internet have really improved some of that or not.

[colonyofcells]

I do not know if somebody who is familiar with the new 52 Lobo will be confused if the pre flashpoint Lobo suddenly replaced the previous version of Lobo with no explanation. In superhero tv shows, each new tv show is a reboot and most tv people understand reboots and will accept reboots with no explanation required.

[sustainentropy]

I do not know if somebody who is familiar with the new 52 Lobo will be confused if the pre flashpoint Lobo suddenly replaced the previous version of Lobo with no explanation. In superhero tv shows, each new tv show is a reboot and most tv people understand reboots and will accept reboots with no explanation required.

Agreed. Most casual comics fans don't put nearly as much thought into it as us hardcore fans do. They'd just be like "Oh, Lobo looks like that now. Cool." and never give it a second thought. That's the impression I got with my casual friends anyway.

[GlennSimpson]

When fans say they don't care about continuity, I often wonder why they stick to a particular company. Do you read comics from other publishers like Marvel, Dynamite, Boom, Image, etc etc etc? If not how come? If all you care about are good stories being written what's stopping you from reading other comic books that are not DC?

I read a lot of Marvel as well. But I read the comics I read for the concepts of the characters (which is really the only thing that is consistent over time anyway). I like Superman because I like Superman. Whether his parents are alive or dead or whatever or whether he was Superboy or not tends to not matter to the story at hand. As long as it is fairly consistent with whatever the last reboot was, one is as good as the other.

[GlennSimpson]

You know what's also tremendoulsy frustrating? Trying to discuss anything comics related with someone and being constantly interrupted by someone claiming that everybody that doesn't fit your absurdly low standards for enjoyment - and preferences - is ridiculous, or a fanboy, or whatever.

You can barely tell the difference among writers? We get it. You "don't care" who is Flash, or Green Lantern, or whichever character? We also get it. You like being a disruptive presence, trying to belittle people for liking what they like? Everyone gets that, at this point.

Stop trying to be a bully in a funnybooks forum. You suck at it.

If someone can point me to the forum where the comic book readers actually have a realistic perspective on the product and the thinking that goes into making it, I'll be happy to spend my time over there.

[BohemiaDrinker]

If someone can point me to the forum where the comic book readers actually have a realistic perspective on the product and the thinking that goes into making it, I'll be happy to spend my time over there.

https://www.proboards.com/create-free-forum

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I read a lot of Marvel as well. But I read the comics I read for the concepts of the characters (which is really the only thing that is consistent over time anyway). I like Superman because I like Superman. Whether his parents are alive or dead or whatever or whether he was Superboy or not tends to not matter to the story at hand. As long as it is fairly consistent with whatever the last reboot was, one is as good as the other.

You, however, seem to demonstrate something unique: you are outright hostile to anything that even resembles Pre-Flashpoint continuity, even though the New 52 continuity has proven to be stale and overall unpopular. If you really don't care about continuity, then why should you care if they reintegrate the Pre-Flashpoint continuity in the form of those 10 missing years, which would actually be the best thing they could do. You know, since the current Superman remembers the Pre-Flashpoint continuity in its totality and as long as he and Wally remember the world as it was and the rest of the world doesn't, they'll be out of sync with the rest of the DCU.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

If someone can point me to the forum where the comic book readers actually have a realistic perspective on the product and the thinking that goes into making it, I'll be happy to spend my time over there.

And there you go again: belittling people for actually becoming invested in the world that was the DC Universe for several decades, which is after all what fans are supposed to do. You think fans of the Harry Potter books would have liked it if J.K. Rowling had decided to reboot the franchise halfway through and replace it with a timeline where Harry had never met Ron or Hermione or had never even found out that he was a wizard? Obviously not. So, belittling people for being attached to something they invested years of their lives into is just being inconsiderate.

And if our perspective is so "unrealistic," then go tell that to Mark Waid or Alex Ross or James Robinson or some of the other 50 or so creators DC offended with the New 52 and their editorial practices over the past few years.

[BatmanJones]

Wally is of the New 52 timeline. All of the memories he is restoring to people who touch him, from Barry to each of the Titans, all happened in the New 52. Kadabra exiling him to the Speed Force causing everyone to forget him happened in the New 52..

This is one of the biggest problems with New 52. Most of the biggest stories suddenly took place off screen and we weren't ever told which happened and which didn't. If fact, they steadily contradicted themselves, making it up as they went along. Rebirth has been a great fix. The New 52 really suffered from its suddenness and lack of planning. We were told Superman had already died, I think. But it was never really clear if the other 4/5 of the original JLA that had died pre-Flashpoint (GA, GL, Flash, so many more) had died and come back to life off-panel. They just didn't take the time to plan it out. (4 Robins in 5 years.) And they tried to course-correct but it didn't work. Rebirth has worked wonderfully as far as I'm concerned. I'm happy to be a happy fan again.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Wally is of the New 52 timeline. All of the memories he is restoring to people who touch him, from Barry to each of the Titans, all happened in the New 52. Kadabra exiling him to the Speed Force causing everyone to forget him happened in the New 52.

But the New 52 is just an abridged, shortened version of Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Barry and the Titans have remembered all they can about him, but Wally knows more because he was outside if the timeline. So, basically Kadabra sending him out of the timeline allowed him to see that someone had messed with time and that the "New 52" wasn't the natural state of things.

[MajorHoy]

You, however, seem to demonstrate something unique: you are outright hostile to anything that even resembles Pre-Flashpoint continuity, even though the New 52 continuity has proven to be stale and overall unpopular.

And considering how you state your opinions about the "success" (or lack there of) for the New52 while also dismissing the fact that sales were definitely declining for pre-Flashpoint DC, as well as the fact that some people would have been relatively happy to stay with the New52 continuity, are you much more friendly to those who didn't feel a need to drag back that pre-Flashpoint past?
Personally, with all the continued vagueness by DC as to what they're doing and what stays and what doesn't in terms of the loosey-goosey excuse for "continuity" they seem to be using in stories, I'm really feeling like Rebirth is turning into the worst of both worlds.
(But, again, that's just one long-time fan's opinion of what DC has put out there.)

[paulojrmam]

I think Rebirth is very confusing. New 52 was much better. But Rebirth's been much better accepted (especially for older fans) and, also, I see that the books are better after Rebirth. DC succeeded with books she wasn't managing to succeed before. Though I think Flashpoint didn't make pre-Flashpoint continuity worthless, in a way. Old fans still bought the comics of their favorite characters based on previous interactions. And comic writers still used previous iterations as basis for the new ones. And previous storiesd serve mostly for this: expectation. You know what to expect from a character based on previous experience with him; but many times prvious stories don't matter to the one at hand. So I think previous legacy importance doesn't decline much after a reboot. It even gains new facets, like comparisons between how it was done before and how it will be done now. Of course, then previous iterations can become a sort of shadow to the new one, if they are worse that the previous one. Also, with a bigger backstory, writers have a bigger pool to draw plots from, since without it they need to start from the beginning.

I'am kinda fresh to comics and New 52 allowed me to easily get acquainted with DC, since I can't stand old, dated art and the convoluted plots that dated back to before CoIE. I understand why fans would want the stories they read through to matter in actual chronology. Convergence had already kinda done that. I just think that, with so old intelectual properties, editors walk a thin line between pleasing old fans and scaring new ones.

[Maxi]

This is one of the biggest problems with New 52. Most of the biggest stories suddenly took place off screen and we weren't ever told which happened and which didn't. If fact, they steadily contradicted themselves, making it up as they went along. Rebirth has been a great fix. The New 52 really suffered from its suddenness and lack of planning. We were told Superman had already died, I think. But it was never really clear if the other 4/5 of the original JLA that had died pre-Flashpoint (GA, GL, Flash, so many more) had died and come back to life off-panel. They just didn't take the time to plan it out. (4 Robins in 5 years.) And they tried to course-correct but it didn't work. Rebirth has worked wonderfully as far as I'm concerned. I'm happy to be a happy fan again.

This was one of my biggest problems with The New 52. We were told that these characters had a history, but we have never actually seen it. It all happened off screen. These new characters were complete unknown to us and they didn't care to build them up from the beginning to make us care about them. For new readers is pretty much all the more confusing. They never made clear if these were supposed to be new characters or retained history of the old ones.

Rebirth isn't making matters much better anyway, and I don't think they will really restore the Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Otherwise, why would they bother building up relationships and status quo again if restoring time right now would be easier?

[DCJdog]

And considering how you state your opinions about the "success" (or lack there of) for the New52 while also dismissing the fact that sales were definitely declining for pre-Flashpoint DC, as well as the fact that some people would have been relatively happy to stay with the New52 continuity, are you much more friendly to those who didn't feel a need to drag back that pre-Flashpoint past?
Personally, with all the continued vagueness by DC as to what they're doing and what stays and what doesn't in terms of the loosey-goosey excuse for "continuity" they seem to be using in stories, I'm really feeling like Rebirth is turning into the worst of both worlds.
(But, again, that's just one long-time fan's opinion of what DC has put out there.)

This is how I feel. The new 52 was indeed a poorly planned reboot or whatever it was. I wonder if they envisioned it being like the "Lost" television show in which the audience was slowly fed background material about the current characters. If so, they really didn't think it out at all. From one of the writers (I forgot which one and am too lazy to look it up), I read that writers now have the freedom to write what they want and can now just say "Dr. Manhattan did it" in order to fix the "continuity." If the new 52 revealed a lack of planning by the editorial board, how is this writing philosophy going to pan out?

I wonder if some of the problems we have now is the subbing out of writing jobs to folks who are mostly experienced in writing for other genres. The Marvel and D.C. universes are very different in that they have a lot of history and legacy. It is what makes them different from other imaginary worlds. It also makes them different from other genres of literature. Without writers and editors who know and respect this, the Marvel and D.C. universes (for lack of a better word) will eventually lose what makes them distinct.