Five years wasted

[hellacre]

To the OP question. Yes I felt wasted my money and time. Worse DC's whole way of their message for Rebirth...ie to suggest if you liked the new 52 you somehow not a real fan or the universe never had love or hope when that is absurd because there were good stories. DC simply needed to keep building and stop dragging some good books down with crossovers etc.

Killing new 52 Superman, then wiping out Azz's WW sort of was the last straw for me. From buying regularly I am not buying anything. Rebirth JL is just poor with the current lineup. SM playing dad to a kid overnight I have no interest in nor Rucka's loopy WW. They just not the versions I am interested in. DC giving lapsed buyers what they want....fine but they are not even trying to give other fans who might want something else another option. The multiverse is there to be used and seems like they want to kill it too. DC seems it's this way or nothing. And I think once Rebirth hype dies down DC will find itself no better off because they would have just back pedaled to alienate another group of fans.

[t hedge coke]

The ad campaign for Rebirth did bug me, a lot. "Heroes... now more than ever." WTF? Why now more than...? WTF do you call all those tights-wearing protagonists you've been publishing, if not heroes? Besides which, they were just pretentious. Thank you, giant billboard of Superman! Now I have hope!

[Clark_Kent]

Well, it all depends on how you look at it.
Did the original writer plan to have the story end the way it did?
Or was it started in one way by one writer, but then somewhere before the end others realized the basic story was crap and they had to change from how it was originally suppose to wrap up to how it finally was resolved?
Was the ending we got a last minute Hail Mary tack on?

I don't mean to be difficult, but I still don't understand the question (sorry!). Are you just asking if the ending was JMS' idea? If so, I don't think anyone knows. I remember Robinson saying at the time that he would be working off of JMS' notes to finish the arc, but I don't know if that included the sunstone and the ptsd.

I'm sorry if I'm still not getting the question...I promise I'm not trying to be difficult!

[Clark_Kent]

To the OP question. Yes I felt wasted my money and time. Worse DC's whole way of their message for Rebirth...ie to suggest if you liked the new 52 you somehow not a real fan or the universe never had love or hope when that is absurd because there were good stories. DC simply needed to keep building and stop dragging some good books down with crossovers etc.

Killing new 52 Superman, then wiping out Azz's WW sort of was the last straw for me. From buying regularly I am not buying anything. Rebirth JL is just poor with the current lineup. SM playing dad to a kid overnight I have no interest in nor Rucka's loopy WW. They just not the versions I am interested in. DC giving lapsed buyers what they want....fine but they are not even trying to give other fans who might want something else another option. The multiverse is there to be used and seems like they want to kill it too. DC seems it's this way or nothing. And I think once Rebirth hype dies down DC will find itself no better off because they would have just back pedaled to alienate another group of fans.

Did you enjoy the stories that you did get, though? That's got to count for something, surely.

I have longboxes full of early Post Crisis Superman books that I'm going to send off this year for custom binding and very little, if any of that material, is still canon for Superdad...but I enjoy the stories, and even at $40 a volume I say it's worth it. To each their own I suppose, but I don't understand how it was a waste if you enjoyed it.

[Lemurion]

Personally, the only time I feel I've wasted as a comics fan was that period in the 90's when I walked away from comics because they had replaced all the characters I enjoyed. Every other era (since I started reading DC in 1973) has had books I enjoyed reading as they came out.

[skyvolt2000]

I largely agree with that philosophy and how I treat head canon,but hard resets and reboots are unnecessary IMO. All they do ultimately is complicates things and divide fans into camps. There is a reason why Superman and WW struggle while Batman (who has never had a hard reboot and at most had a soft one with Year One and again with the New 52) don't. There's not the same divide in fandom. Batman in 1978 and 1998 and 2008 and now is all Batman. Can't really say the same with Superman. It's seen as " which Superman?".

There is pure HATE for Duke Thomas and he's not even wearing a Robin costume.

Funny how hate for Damian suddenly vanished and went over to Duke.

We snipe at each other over Robins and Batgirls rather than Batman.

The Batgirl thing was different. DC removed 2 and continued to edited them out of books. When both had previous IDS that could allow them to still be around.

And if we take divided fandom-Green Lantern anyone? Mainly John vs Hal. THat puts X-Men vs Inhumans to shame.

[godisawesome]

Did you enjoy the stories that you did get, though? That's got to count for something, surely.

I have longboxes full of early Post Crisis Superman books that I'm going to send off this year for custom binding and very little, if any of that material, is still canon for Superdad...but I enjoy the stories, and even at $40 a volume I say it's worth it. To each their own I suppose, but I don't understand how it was a waste if you enjoyed it.

It's a solid argument, but I think the philosophy behind it just doesn't suit some readers, myself included, even though I'm kind of against the New 52 and for Rebirth. Some people read comics and treat them very much as temporary stories; others treat them as segments of a continuing tale. And while individual issues and stories are excellent, there is a greater value in some readers' minds when the momentum of continuity flows into modern ones.

I'm a big fan of Yost and Nicieza's runs on Red Robin, in part because I was a big fan of Nicieza and Dixon's work on Robin, and I was crushed when DC threw out those stories for the New 52. Do I still enjoy them? Yes, but not as much as if I knew that I could walk into a comic shop and immediately follow up on Armstrong and Tim Drake's enmity, or Lynx's undercover cop/crook angle, or Tim Drake being an emancipated minor with occasional flashes of earned Machiavellian manipulation.

Continuity acts as a selling point for previous stories ("Man, I've got to buy the issue where this guy first show's up! He's awesome!") and for future ones ("That guy's coming back!?! Great! I know here I'm spending my money!"). In these cases, the reader kind of invests money in a direction they approve of, and in some cases expects a high quality in that direction.

New 52 fans are experiencing the same deflation that some of us Pre-Flashpoint fans felt. Which is why there's a whole lot less whining from Batman and Green Lantern fans; they didn't change that much in the first place, and they haven't changed that much now.

[Colossus1980]

There is pure HATE for Duke Thomas and he's not even wearing a Robin costume.

Funny how hate for Damian suddenly vanished and went over to Duke.

I'm going to call you out for the Duke Thomas hate.

There was major hate for Jason Todd.

Hate so great a lot of people wanted him Dead. Killed.

Remember that toll line back to see if he lived or died?

It wasn't a unanimous decision but he was voted to die.

People just have a tough time for new replacements.

No internet back then but it seemed everyone hated Jason Todd.

Way more than Duke. Way more.

You got to let that one go. It's got to go.

It seems a lot of people don't care for angry young males like Jason, Damian, and Duke.

People like Jason now as the Red Hood.

More people accept Damian now.

Eventually people will warm up to Duke.

[DCJdog]

Yep, I am actually just now reading some of those stories now (Dixon's Robin) and love it. To know that it will be thrown does suck. They did all this world building for what? I feel for new 52 fans. It sucks for them and it sucks for those who enjoyed the pre-Flashpoint storylines. The lesson is that the radical reboots/retcons whatever they did with the new 52 suck. They divide fan bases and create confusion.

[colonyofcells]

All of these reboots, rebirths, retcons, retroboots, etc. do make forums very lively though.

[beetee]

I think this divisiveness is factored in these days. It's much like our politics.... the assumption is that people need to be angry, afraid or hate something in order to buy comics that undid the thing you hated they did.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm going to call you out for the Duke Thomas hate.

There was major hate for Jason Todd.

Hate so great a lot of people wanted him Dead. Killed.

Remember that toll line back to see if he lived or died?

It wasn't a unanimous decision but he was voted to die.

People just have a tough time for new replacements.

No internet back then but it seemed everyone hated Jason Todd.

Way more than Duke. Way more.

You got to let that one go. It's got to go.

It seems a lot of people don't care for angry young males like Jason, Damian, and Duke.

People like Jason now as the Red Hood.

More people accept Damian now.

Eventually people will warm up to Duke.

I can't imagine people will ever warm up to Duke to the point where he becomes as popular as Jason or Damian. Damian was introduced by one of the biggest names in comics, and Jason's death is one of the most iconic Bat-Stories ever published (even though it's actually not that great), meaning his resurrection was a big deal as well. Both were also introduced on a significantly less crowded stage than Duke (particularly Jason, who only had Dick and sort of Babs to compete with). When the characters who are actually important are struggling for unique stuff to do, Duke being shoved down our throats while having nothing interesting to add doesn't bode well.

[colonyofcells]

I would agree that reboots, retcons, relaunches with number 1s do help sales so we should see more number 1s after the 2 year Rebirth.

[MajorHoy]

I would agree that reboots, retcons, relaunches with number 1s do help sales so we should see more number 1s after the 2 year Rebirth.

For Marvel that would be true.

But in the past, DC has been less cavalier in terms of ending a series and then almost immediately relaunching that book with a new #1 issue. I'm hoping they stay with that course for the future and not go the Marvel route.

[spirit2011]

For Marvel that would be true.

But in the past, DC has been less cavalier in terms of ending a series and then almost immediately relaunching that book with a new #1 issue. I'm hoping they stay with that course for the future and not go the Marvel route.

well red hood, teen titans, JLA, suicid squad all relaunched 3 times since 2011. DC isn't so shy about relaunching

Yep, I am actually just now reading some of those stories now (Dixon's Robin) and love it. To know that it will be thrown does suck. They did all this world building for what? I feel for new 52 fans. It sucks for them and it sucks for those who enjoyed the pre-Flashpoint storylines. The lesson is that the radical reboots/retcons whatever they did with the new 52 suck. They divide fan bases and create confusion.

I agree about this,

But it is offensive when people start whining about losing not even 5 years of comics, while other lost like 30 years of comics. That five years made people lose many hundreds of comics that they bought.
So deal with it
It's not even like new52 was any good, so it being erased is a good thing for the majority.

Maybe I'm insensitive, but I remember all the bullying just for not being onboard with new52 (I knew the consequences would be negatives for a zero restart). That wasn't nice, but I'm also not so nice.

also complain about erasing something that erased 30 years of things is hipocrite as hell

I can't imagine people will ever warm up to Duke to the point where he becomes as popular as Jason or Damian. Damian was introduced by one of the biggest names in comics, and Jason's death is one of the most iconic Bat-Stories ever published (even though it's actually not that great), meaning his resurrection was a big deal as well. Both were also introduced on a significantly less crowded stage than Duke (particularly Jason, who only had Dick and sort of Babs to compete with). When the characters who are actually important are struggling for unique stuff to do, Duke being shoved down our throats while having nothing interesting to add doesn't bode well.

The problem with Duke is that batwriters seems to gorget to use damian, I even forget that Batman has a son. and Snyder kind of took a involuntary shot at Robin role