Batman #12 Preview/Discussion

[JBatmanFan05]

Preview: http://www.cbr.com/batman-12-3/

This was my favorite issue in King's run yet and has really sold me on him on Batman. You get a fresh interesting take on Batman's psychology here (and I like those whether it's my ideal or not, I love Blind Justice and it has a very negative view on Batman). The issue is very introspective about Batman and what makes him tick in King's view. This chapter cements what "I Am Suicide" is trying to say about Batman so far.

And Janin is off the charts experimental here and awesome.

[Maxi]

I was liking King until this issue.

I don't like when writers try to force this kind of edgy nonsense into Batman. I don't think this adds any depth to the character, it's taking away from him by making him some crazy wacko who becomes Batman as some sort of bizarre ritual. There's a reason why the better Batman writers don't make Batman out to be some nut in a suit, but a hero.

Batman is a tool for Bruce Wayne to cope with his pain. With this it is as if he's accepting the pain and going "well, I guess I'm really nuts after all".

[millernumber1]

I don't think that's what King is saying. I am totally with you - Batman as crazy, as Frank Miller has said, means Batman is not really worth reading about. But King is delving into why someone would become Batman forever. It's not Rucka-Punisher level, where someone can't enjoy anything because they are dead due to past trauma. It's sort of an existentialist rejection of the nihilist embrace of the absurd of the Joker (which I like a lot better than Snyder's bizarre "Joker and Batman are best friends" weirdness).

[Rakzo]

Repeating myself:

Can you imagine an issue where barely anything happens and instead is devoted to incredibly unnatural narration?

Well, imagine no more since this is a reality!

The only thing that happens during this chapter is just a fight between Bruce and Bane's henchmen without anything remotely interesting happening to pay attention. The only thing that makes these scenes compelling is Janin's artwork and storytelling but he was pretty much wasted here since King didn't even bother to give him interesting stuff to depict. Although King did bother to reunite all of his writing flaws like repetitive, awkward and forced lines during the whole fight and there are so many problems with it that listing all of them would take too long (I will name the most prominent though: Parents, laugh, cat, etc.).

Oh, and about the self-harm topic. I don't even understand the point of hyping it since it was barely here and didn't even affect the progress of the plot. I'm starting to believe that it was just bait. To be fair, King's execution about this is not bad but he tries to present it in such a forcefully poetic way that is hard to take it seriously.

Not getting better, all the contrary actually.

[Korath]

That was... an awesome issue. Delving deep into Batman's psyche, and doing it click with what I see in Batman, what I've always seen. I must say that I really like that. This approach is interesting because it explains where Batman's determination comes from. It isn't some drive to do good in absolute. It is the death wish of a kid who's been dying for years, since his parents where gunned down in an alley for no reason at all.

Last issue left me hanging, even a little bitter, but this one is near perfection for me. Kind didn't feel that it was necessary to progress the plot for the sake of it. He's building the characters, and explain his takes on them. It also help to explain why Batman's so driven to get Psycho Pirate and save Gotham-Girl ; he doesn't want her to be dead like he is, like Selina his (in his eyes). And that's noble, that's incredibly noble. Batman's taking upon himself all the suffering, all the anguish, all the despair of Gotham, and he says "no more". You can't get more heroic than that, at least in my book.

[JBatmanFan05]

I've re-read a part a couple of times now and spoilers:

I'm pretty sure Batman is calling CW a liar about the 237 kill spree. Seems to me he is saying he knows she couldn't do it, because they're so alike, but he jailed her anyway and plans to prove she didn't do these murders. My guess is this false confession is akin thematically to Batman's self-harming, this pain/punishment they deliberately put themselves through to cope with their loss, self-flagellation I think Grant Morrison would call it (he did call Miller Batman that). Either that or Psycho Pirate somehow caused the false confession from afar?

end of spoilers

[JBatmanFan05]

One thing I will say is that I'm not surprised the reactions to King's run is mixed so far on here. All this is definitely experimental and different (especially from Snyder who crammed a good deal into each issue).

King said long ago in some interview that he'd tell stories more through action and he is doing that very much. Here we have a simple story unspoodfed to the reader built around action splash pages.

[Korath]

I've re-read a part a couple of times now and spoilers:

is it just me or is Batman calling CW a liar about the 237 kill spree? Seems to me he is saying he knows she couldn't do it, because they're so alike, but he jailed her anyway and plans to prove she didn't do these murders.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I had more the impression that he called her a liar when it came to her motivations, but I may have read it wrong.

end of spoilers

Also, spoilers:

am I the only one who feel that Batman and Bane's confrontation in Gotham will be extremely violent and may well end with the Bat killing the Bane ?

end of spoilers

[Maxpower00044]

I haven't read the issue yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Psycho Pirate's persuasive abilities are causing more here than meets the eye.

[Drz]

My disappointments to the Suicide Squad storyarc come to the point I led myself get way too hyped about Bronze Tiger, Punch & Jewelee and Ventriloquist, this story arc is all about Batman and Catwoman.

It seems plausible that the next issue which is the final part of the arc is where King drops all his big twists: Catwoman didn't kill 237 terrorists and if she did, perhaps she did it with Amanda Waller and the Squad? Bronze Tiger, Punch and Jewelee are all alive and had their own plans with Catwoman, Batman ensures everyone's survival by making Ventriloquist the puppet dictator of the Island or something.

It seem's like all the big punches are prepared to be packed in the coming 22 pages or something.

[joybeans]

Jewelee does have hypnotic gems, so I doubt that we've seen the last of Punch and Jewelee.

[millernumber1]

I haven't read the issue yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Psycho Pirate's persuasive abilities are causing more here than meets the eye.

Yes, there's a lot of mental states and unreliability going around - I'm really hoping that that comes into play in the conclusion.

[ABH]

I don't love or hate it, but I do think it's an interesting take.

Ultimately though, this doesn't change all that much about Batman -- his internal "why he does what he does" just leads him to the same place he always in, and this can be easily ignored and forgotten by the next writer.

[sustainentropy]

spoilers:

Batman seems to be implying in the issue that Catwoman wouldn't have committed those murder of her own volition, because just like him she knows that death is a choice and she'd never take that choice away from someone else.

end of spoilers

My guess is it's the Pirate's influence.

[TomSlick]

Repeating myself:

Can you imagine an issue where barely anything happens and instead is devoted to incredibly unnatural narration?

Well, imagine no more since this is a reality!

The only thing that happens during this chapter is just a fight between Bruce and Bane's henchmen without anything remotely interesting happening to pay attention. The only thing that makes these scenes compelling is Janin's artwork and storytelling but he was pretty much wasted here since King didn't even bother to give him interesting stuff to depict. Although King did bother to reunite all of his writing flaws like repetitive, awkward and forced lines during the whole fight and there are so many problems with it that listing all of them would take too long (I will name the most prominent though: Parents, laugh, cat, etc.).

Oh, and about the self-harm topic. I don't even understand the point of hyping it since it was barely here and didn't even affect the progress of the plot. I'm starting to believe that it was just bait. To be fair, King's execution about this is not bad but he tries to present it in such a forcefully poetic way that is hard to take it seriously.

Not getting better, all the contrary actually.

I couldn't have said it better. Piss poor "poetry." The mental patient-like ramblings of an 8th grade writer at best. At least he didn't bucking bronco a 747 in this issue.