Batman #12 Preview/Discussion

[Atlanta96]

It was okay I guess, it didn't really accomplish everything aside from establishing Bruce's self harm. Which lasted 2 dialogue boxes. The last issue will probably be better but the last few were surprisingly mediocre, even for a slow building writer like King.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Favorite non-Morrison issue of a Batman comic since...I dunno, Brennert's stuff in the 80s? Maybe ever. Jesus. I guess like Morrison before him King's stuff is turning out divisive, and also like Morrison before him this blows almost all other comics featuring Batman so far out of the water it's almost embarrassing to think of someone else having to write the character while this is going on at the same time. Or any time for the first few years after this wraps while its still reverberating, for that matter. Absolute next-level shit.

[darkseidpwns]

This has to be one of the worst issues of Batman ever. What kind of scripting was this? what happened to the actual story? what happened to Batmans Squad? Why was Batman fighting his way to the room when he was already there when the previous issue ended? why the hell isn't Pirate using his power and being done with it? The whole blading thing was blown out of proportion by fans, it was a throwaway line. I dont like the idea of Bruce being a mask but I've come to accept it, this was taking it to a whole new level. Nah Batman is a story of triumph not suicide, suicide is giving up altogether,that's bs.There is also a huge difference between suicide and rebirth.Terrible story, terrible scripting, terrible message,this is a mess.

[darkseidpwns]

Btw the message imparted here was the exact opposite of what Morrison was trying to accomplish, there is nothing in common between either runs and Grant started drawing heat when Dick and Damian became the dynamic duo.

[Agent Z]

This has to be one of the worst issues of Batman ever. What kind of scripting was this? what happened to the actual story? what happened to Batmans Squad? Why was Batman fighting his way to the room when he was already there when the previous issue ended? why the hell isn't Pirate using his power and being done with it? The whole blading thing was blown out of proportion by fans, it was a throwaway line. I dont like the idea of Bruce being a mask but I've come to accept it, this was taking it to a whole new level. Nah Batman is a story of triumph not suicide, suicide is giving up altogether,that's bs.There is also a huge difference between suicide and rebirth.Terrible story, terrible scripting, terrible message,this is a mess.

Seeing as how he didn't commit suicide anyway, I'd say it's still a story of triumph. It's just that triumph isn't something that is reached without obstacles along the way.

[darkseidpwns]

Seeing as how he didn't commit suicide anyway, I'd say it's still a story of triumph. It's just that triumph isn't something that is reached without obstacles along the way.

Except King has essentially presented the idea of rebirth but twisted it in to suicide because the latter is grim and gritty. It's not triumph when Batman outright says he's dead and only becomes alive when he kisses Catwoman. He's just smart ,rich and sexy Solomon Grundy or Hank Henshaw. This isn't triumph, this is a guy asking to be put out of his misery.

[Lucas 35]

This story does not make sense.

This review (http://batman-news.com/2016/12/07/batman-12-review/) explains a few of my problems:

Look, I firmly believe that Batman is capable of taking out 100 guys, but not in the way that is being shown here. I mentioned this in my review for Batman #10, but Batman cannot dodge the incoming gunfire of 20 automatic rifles aimed directly at him. If he is dodging all that, we are talking Flash speed. He’s also not impervious to gunfire. Bullet resistant, sure. If he’s actually taking those hits and just shrugging them off, well then, that’s Superman. And he is neither of them. I’m perfectly willing to believe that Batman can dodge the gunfire from a couple of gunmen when he uses the shadows and misdirection as his ally, but there is no way I can buy into what he is doing here.

The next question that comes to mind is: if Batman can take out the complement of the entire island, why didn’t he do it from the beginning? Issue #10 had this whole elaborate plan where he got captured intentionally so he could escape and let everyone in from the inside. But why? This issue shows that he could have invaded the place single-handedly and taken Psycho-Pirate by force, or better yet, without anyone even knowing. Here, we see how he could have entered from the top tower or even through a subterranean cave filled with water. Both scenarios could have played out like they did here or with complete stealth. Basically, he didn’t need to get captured to get in. He could have just gotten in.

This also draws into question the need for the team at all. This issue proves that Batman didn’t need the team. He could have busted in under cover of darkness and taken Psycho-Pirate without anyone being the wiser. Or, he could have just done what we see here from the very start and taken him out over the unconscious bodies of every single individual on the island. You don’t need a team if the entire opposition is unconscious!

Now let’s consider something else. At the end of last issue, Batman was in a ventilation shaft above the throne room. But at the beginning of this issue, he has to work his way back to the throne room?!? What happened? He was there! What? He decided to leave, come back, and in the process leave a sea of human carnage in his wake. Why? What was the point? This stuff is getting pretty nonsensical if you ask me.

At the end of my review for issue #10, I said that if things transpired that changed my feelings about the story, I’d be more than happy to recant my words. But as it stands, this issue has just proven to me that #10 was even worse than I had initially thought. As a matter of fact, this issue is calling into question every issue that’s come before it. Things that I could have at least tried to justify up till now, have been given answers that completely make previous events seem like so much drivel. But hey, I haven’t even gotten to the worst thing about this issue yet…

[SicariiDC]

That was... an awesome issue. Delving deep into Batman's psyche, and doing it click with what I see in Batman, what I've always seen. I must say that I really like that. This approach is interesting because it explains where Batman's determination comes from. It isn't some drive to do good in absolute. It is the death wish of a kid who's been dying for years, since his parents where gunned down in an alley for no reason at all.

Last issue left me hanging, even a little bitter, but this one is near perfection for me. Kind didn't feel that it was necessary to progress the plot for the sake of it. He's building the characters, and explain his takes on them. It also help to explain why Batman's so driven to get Psycho Pirate and save Gotham-Girl ; he doesn't want her to be dead like he is, like Selina his (in his eyes). And that's noble, that's incredibly noble. Batman's taking upon himself all the suffering, all the anguish, all the despair of Gotham, and he says "no more". You can't get more heroic than that, at least in my book.

Wow. I liked the issue, but I don't think I truly understood it, and the I am Suicide proclamation, until I just read your post. Hh. Thank you.

Fantastic issue, art was AMAZING, I agree with you and JBatmanfan05 that it was wonderful to see a look into the psyche.

Something I enjoyed that I haven't seen much talk about is the self awareness Bruce showed Selina in the letter, the regarding his crusade and how ridiculous it is. I loved that, and haven't seen it many (ever?) times before

[Batmaniac]

Tom King's delving deeper into why Bruce would surrender himself to the mission forever. Bruce tried to commit suicide, and he did, but only metaphorically. He didn't take his life. Instead, he devoted his being to the mission. To being Batman. And this is why Batman is suicide, because for as long as he's Batman, Bruce is dead. And this isn't really something new. We all know Bruce gave up his life as Bruce to be Batman. This is just King's fresh take on it. And if you ask me, it's god damn brilliant.

[David Walton]

A fun thought. Batman claims Bruce Wayne died when he was eight years old, but we've got a comic in the same month from the same author in which Bruce asks Alfred, "Haven't I been a good boy?"

I think the rumors of the child's metaphorical death have been greatly exaggerated. There's undoubtedly some truth in what Batman's selling, but nonetheless, take it with a grain of salt.

[Maxpower00044]

I wish people would stop saying suicide is "grim and gritty" and it's the only reason it was in the book. You sound pretty immature and ignorant when you say it.

This was a damn good issue. I have no problem with a young Bruce Wayne looking for a way out before he decides he's gong to become Batman. Very tragic. Got a little more insight that even Batman doesn't think Catwoman killed all those people, so I'm gonna say it's most likely a swerve. I wouldn't have cared either way, but at least the people who did may be able to sleep better at night if it is in fact a ruse.

[JBatmanFan05]

Tom King's delving deeper into why Bruce would surrender himself to the mission forever. Bruce tried to commit suicide, and he did, but only metaphorically. He didn't take his life. Instead, he devoted his being to the mission. To being Batman. And this is why Batman is suicide, because for as long as he's Batman, Bruce is dead. And this isn't really something new. We all know Bruce gave up his life as Bruce to be Batman. This is just King's fresh take on it. And if you ask me, it's god damn brilliant.

I do think your post here touches on what I think too...that King is here is just sort of rephrasing, phrasing differently, Batman's choice to give up life as Bruce some to be Batman, a role that dominates his day to day life. It's a dark phrasing perhaps, but not so different from say Mask of the Phantasm's points about what Bruce gave up to be Batman. To be Batman has its costs to Bruce's life, some 'deaths' to some/a good deal of (pre-Batman) Bruce.

[Maxpower00044]

I've seen a few posts ask why Batman's infiltrating the compound when last issue he was already in the vents. I thought it was pretty obvious that this issue is from Batman's perspective during the same time Catwoman and Wesker were in the vents.

[CentralPower]

I have only read the preview. (I am behind on "Batman" by several issues.)

The idea of Batman being crazy is nothing new. It has been discussed in varying degrees since the 80s, if not 70s (depending on how you prioritize sources).

I am okay with the idea that Bruce Wayne considered (or attempted) suicide because it makes a degree of sense. (Dressing up as a bat and spending one's time knocking criminals around is not the lifestyle of a sane of healthy person. But, could Bruce be healthy after what he went through?) And, the idea of Bruce Wayne being the mask for Batman has also been around for some time.

Catwoman trying to play "suicide by confession" is intriguing.

[JBatmanFan05]

A fun thought. Batman claims Bruce Wayne died when he was eight years old, but we've got a comic in the same month from the same author in which Bruce asks Alfred, "Haven't I been a good boy?"

I think the rumors of the child's metaphorical death have been greatly exaggerated. There's undoubtedly some truth in what Batman's selling, but nonetheless, take it with a grain of salt.

Yes, maybe King is setting the table for more exploration of the seeming idea he's proffering that Batman IS the kid Bruce Wayne and what the public sees as (adult) "Bruce Wayne" is a mask while Batman is the real Bruce.

Or am I way off on that take? It feels supported by the text.

Can't tell if it's just a roundabout way of saying Batman is the real one and Bruce is not. Or maybe some new or rarer nuance on the duality.