Detective Comics or Batman, what's the best Batman Rebirth comic?

[Godlike13]

How is he not a main character? He's literally the reason the story got started.

You have already admitted that he's a supporting character, and has said yourself that he doesn't have a main role. He plays a supporting role, he gathered the team, and helps move the team's story along by doing things like playing the damsel and what have you. 'Tec is not about Batman or his story, and the focus is not on Batman.

His name on the cover is more for promotional reasons and isn't indicative of what 'Tec has really been about.

[darkseidpwns]

Even Trinity is more of a Batman comic than Tec tbh. Dropped Tec after the Monster Men, I think I'll drop Batman depending on how the current arc ends. Neither for me, All-Star is far better as far as I'm concerned.

[Caivu]

You have already admitted that he's a supporting character, and has said yourself that he doesn't have a main role. He plays a supporting role, he gathered the team, and helps move the team's story along by doing things like playing the damsel and what have you. 'Tec is not about Batman or his story, and the focus is not on Batman.

His name on the cover is more for promotional reasons and isn't indicative of what 'Tec has really been about.

Fine, but it still doesn't matter if the focus is on him or not. He still plays a large enough role while also being the most popular member of the cast, by far. That's what it all boils down to. I certainly wouldn't feel right calling it an "insert character X" comic. Batman gets top billing for anything he's in as more than a guest star, thus that thing is "his". He's simply too popular for that not to be the case.

[Pohzee]

I really.don't know what you mean here. I don't know how you can make that argument for at least half the issues in the first arc.

Broken leaps of logic like military training equalling leardership potential, repeated ad nauseum. Constantly calling teenage vigilantes soldiers and psuedo-military lingo that would put Frank Miller to shame. Tim being the captain of asspulls, having already invented things that miraculously off-panel that get the group out of a situation with no prior mentions on more than one occassion and hacking anything and everything, even when it didn't make much since. Clayface's highlights being as a means of transportation. Orphan's two fight scenes being nearly identical. "Chosen one" trope. etc. etc.

Adding Clayface to the team and killing/placing Tim in limbo are BIG risks.

There is nothing risky about being the third Robin to die in as many years, particularly with the precedent that both characters returned to successful solos. He is the last Robin to "die" in canon, and being the last to do sonething is never risky, especially since it was revealed that he wasn't even dead in the same issue.

[paulojrmam]

Batman is not the main character in 'Tec, IMO he's not even a supporting character, he's basically an extra. And I for one would like the book more if they did go all the way and left Batman out of it. Inclusive it would make more sense when you consider Batman and 'Tec are supposed to be kinda simultaneous. Detective Comics, as of now, is totally a Batwoman book, she's the main character. Batman there is only her counselor. Batman is on the book only to boost sales and to me his staying there feels very forced, clunky and unnatural.

Tim being the captain of asspulls, having already invented things that miraculously off-panel that get the group out of a situation with no prior mentions.

I didn't understand one thing: are we to believe Tim made that alternate Batcave all by himself without any help? It would be more plausible with at least robots to help him otherwise it's really absurd.

[Caivu]

Broken leaps of logic like military training equalling leardership potential, repeated ad nauseum.

What's broken about that? Military members can't make good leaders? Kate had a pretty high rank at West Point, and had she not left, she would've almost certainly been First Captain. That's going all the way back to Elegy. Besides, near the end of the first arc, it's revealed that a major reason Batman included her was so she wouldn't warn her dad. He was kind of buttering her up a bit by bringing that up, while also not being completely off-base. Just like what Jacob was doing in trying to get her to join the Colony.

Constantly calling teenage vigilantes soldiers and psuedo-military lingo that would put Frank Miller to shame.

Again, not a thing new to this series. Kate thinks like a soldier and sees her service as Batwoman as identical to military service. She has referred to allies as soldiers before, so I don't understand this complaint. That's completely in-character for her.

Tim being the captain of asspulls, having already invented things that miraculously off-panel that get the group out of a situation with no prior mentions on more than one occassion and hacking anything and everything, even when it didn't make much since.

That's different from most Batman comics... how? Besides, he had more going on than just that.

Clayface's highlights being as a means of transportation.

Even assuming that's true, so what? He's not the focus of the first arc.

Orphan's two fight scenes being nearly identical.

You have a bit more of a point here, but I don't agree it's a huge problem.

"Chosen one" trope. etc. etc.

Who? Kate? Uh, no, she doesn't fall into the Chosen One trope at all. If for no other reason than she rejects her supposed calling. Violently.

And even if she is (and she's not) the Chosen One trope is not necessarily a bad thing.

There is nothing risky about being the third Robin to die in as many years, particularly with the precedent that both characters returned to successful solos. He is the last Robin to "die" in canon, and being the last to do sonething is never risky, especially since it was revealed that he wasn't even dead in the same issue.

The riskiness comes from using Tim's "death" as a way to tie into the larger story. Did you read the reactions to the end of #940? Some people liked it, but some were really pissed off. You don't get that kind of reaction from safe choices.

[Caivu]

Batman is not the main character in 'Tec, IMO he's not even a supporting character, he's basically an extra.

C'mon, seriously? He's only an extra? That's an even more ridiculous notion. Extras don't get large speaking roles.

Batman is on the book only to boost sales and to me his staying there feels very forced, clunky and unnatural.

Why is it unnatural to you? Nothing about his presence here feels forced to me.

I didn't understand one thing: are we to believe Tim made that alternate Batcave all by himself without any help? It would be more plausible with at least robots to help him otherwise it's really absurd.

The way I understand it, Batman gave him access to all the tech and Tim essentially assembled and installed it according to his own blueprints. As for the manual labor part of it, robots are certainly plausible.

[Waterfall]

I like the IDEA of Tec a lot more. It's something I would like to see adapted into cartoons instead of same ol' Batman stories, it expands on Batman lores in a satisfying manner.
Batman needs...time to get used to, I was so excited for Batman's Suicide Squad and it turned into a massive disappointment for me. I'm sticking with it until Psycho Pirate stuff is resolved. Or I'll just drop after this arc to wait on Psycho Pirate plot later.

[JasonTodd428]

I like Batman better. I loved the IDEA for 'Tec but the execution left something to be desired IMHO due to various Tynion-isms. I dropped 'Tec at issue 4 though I read through the first arc. Batman has improved issue to issue and is just telling a story I like better and find more interesting so it gets my vote.

[SiegePerilous02]

'Tec seems more like a dumping ground for the 90s characters. Clearly there is an audience for it so it makes sense for DC to publish it, but I wish it was in a different book. Bruce doesn't need a crap ton of books to headline, but Detective is his aside from the brief period Rucka wrote Batwoman in it. And Tynion is no Rucka.

If there was a book staring Supergirl, Superboy, Steel and whoever with Clark as a side character/guest star, would people be asking which is the better Superman book? The one actually staring him or the one he barely appears in? I feel like this is something that people only do with Batman.

[Waterfall]

There are enough Batman books. I like the idea of Detective being the ground for characters who can't hold a solo. More people get to learn about them in this way.

I wish they modeled Action in a similar way too.

[skyvolt2000]

There are enough Batman books. I like the idea of Detective being the ground for characters who can't hold a solo. More people get to learn about them in this way.

I wish they modeled Action in a similar way too.

All those folks held solos.

Aside from Steph. many did it for more than 3 years.

Same if they tried it with Superman-Supergirl, Steel & Superboy boast over 50+ solo issues.

The best way to view Detective Comic is it's easier to showcase those guys in that one book and ENSURE its trades end up at someone's library or book store.

Not everybody's solo trades end up at all stores or libraries.

[Aliltron]

I agree with the many points being made about both series. I myself have been enjoying Detective Comics a lot more than Batman but yes, it is more generic than Batman. I will say though that the latest issue of Batman has made me more optimistic for this book. It is a little more experimental as you all have pointed out and some of that worked for me and some of that really didn't. I'm hoping the conclusion to I Am Suicide provides a satisfying ending to this arc and makes me excited to continue. The latest issue was honestly the only issue I really enjoyed. I also do feel like the Bat books aren't as strong as they could be.

[Aliltron]

I like the IDEA of Tec a lot more. It's something I would like to see adapted into cartoons instead of same ol' Batman stories, it expands on Batman lores in a satisfying manner.
Batman needs...time to get used to, I was so excited for Batman's Suicide Squad and it turned into a massive disappointment for me. I'm sticking with it until Psycho Pirate stuff is resolved. Or I'll just drop after this arc to wait on Psycho Pirate plot later.

This is how I feel about the current Batman arc. I hyped it up way too much and it was a massive disappointment to me. I actually dropped the series after I Am Gotham and only jumped back on for Catwoman tbh and well...we all know how that's been lol.

[SiegePerilous02]

There are enough Batman books. I like the idea of Detective being the ground for characters who can't hold a solo. More people get to learn about them in this way.

I wish they modeled Action in a similar way too.

There are enough Batman books yeah, but Detective is one of his classic two. He doesn't need any more solo books than that, but I think this book would still have an audience if it was called something else.

I don't think Superman has enough misc. characters to model Action after this. Considering the lack of love Supes gets from DC for a character of his importance, I think it would be a bad idea as well. Taking Action away from him would be one more poor decision to add to the pile.