Is Homecoming ripping off Miles Morales?

[Celgress]

I think this has become so heated and out of control that no one knows what they're actually arguing about anymore.

I must agree with you. In recent days this forum has turned into the X-Men Board 2.0, lol. I blame the occurrence on people being cranky at year's end, but who knows.

[regg215]

Miles Morales in ITSV comes from BROOKLYN. Peter is from Queens.

My apologies, you are absolutely correct, brooklyn is not queens. meant to say same state not area but you are absolutely correct, Queens is not at all brooklyn. I got that part wrong.

[WebSlingWonder]

I must agree with you. In recent days this forum has turned into the X-Men Board 2.0, lol. I blame the occurrence on people being cranky at year's end, but who knows.

Exactly. This is ridiculous. It really doesn't matter whose similar to whom: they're both the Amazing Spider-Man.

[Snoop Dogg]

Miles and Peter have become an ouroboros, feeding off each other and becoming each other. Soon, we will not be able to tell them apart at all.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think this has become so heated and out of control that no one knows what they're actually arguing about anymore.

This thread was fine when it was about what Homecoming borrowed from Miles, which it definitely did...but then it became devolved with some MCU fanatics attacking fans for pointing them out, not actually arguing but making Ad hominem attacks on posters for bringing that up.

And then their counter-arguments amount to claiming that Queens is the same as Brooklyn and so on...

Look, it was never Kevin Feige's intention to do a teenage Spider-Man in the MCU. He initially wanted Tobey Maguire back when he made Iron Man 2008 and wanted to include references to Dr. Octopus but Sony said no then. Then Marvel got bought by Disney and Sony made the Andrew Garfield movies who Feige said he wanted now. Sony made the decision for the reboot. Tom Holland wasn't his choice. MCU Spider-Man Homecoming is fundamentally a Sony production and not a Marvel one so there's no need to get defensive about this.

[WebSlingWonder]

This thread was fine when it was about what Homecoming borrowed from Miles, which it definitely did...but then it became devolved with some MCU fanatics attacking fans for pointing them out, not actually arguing but making Ad hominem attacks on posters for bringing that up.

And then their counter-arguments amount to claiming that Queens is the same as Brooklyn and so on...

Look, it was never Kevin Feige's intention to do a teenage Spider-Man in the MCU. He initially wanted Tobey Maguire back when he made Iron Man 2008 and wanted to include references to Dr. Octopus but Sony said no then. Then Marvel got bought by Disney and Sony made the Andrew Garfield movies who Feige said he wanted now. Sony made the decision for the reboot. Tom Holland wasn't his choice. MCU Spider-Man Homecoming is fundamentally a Sony production and not a Marvel one so there's no need to get defensive about this.

I'm not getting defensive: I'm just saying it seems that everyone else is getting that way. It's weird and out of character for this forum.

[Celgress]

Exactly. This is ridiculous. It really doesn't matter whose similar to whom: they're both the Amazing Spider-Man.

True, and each brings something unique to the table in all honesty.

[Snoop Dogg]

I must agree with you. In recent days this forum has turned into the X-Men Board 2.0, lol. I blame the occurrence on people being cranky at year's end, but who knows.

It's because we are Nick Spencer deprived. We must wait a whole month between #12 and #13 and we are becoming depressed. It is the consequence of the absence of the Lord in our lives. The only way to stave off the madness is by picking up his second issue of Archie this week. Amen.

[Arsenal]

This thread was fine when it was about what Homecoming borrowed from Miles, which it definitely did...but then it became devolved with some MCU fanatics attacking fans for pointing them out, not actually arguing but making Ad hominem attacks on posters for bringing that up.

And then their counter-arguments amount to claiming that Queens is the same as Brooklyn and so on...

Look, it was never Kevin Feige's intention to do a teenage Spider-Man in the MCU. He initially wanted Tobey Maguire back when he made Iron Man 2008 and wanted to include references to Dr. Octopus but Sony said no then. Then Marvel got bought by Disney and Sony made the Andrew Garfield movies who Feige said he wanted now. Sony made the decision for the reboot. Tom Holland wasn't his choice. MCU Spider-Man Homecoming is fundamentally a Sony production and not a Marvel one so there's no need to get defensive about this.

The thread doesn’t even make sense since 11 pages out of 14 wort of arguements were based on a trailer. Not the movie. The trailer.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The thread doesn’t even make sense since 11 pages out of 14 wort of arguements were based on a trailer. Not the movie. The trailer.

I kind of assumed that it was obvious to recent posters that this was about the mini-thread that the mods folded into this old one. None of the recent posters are familiar with the necro-arguments.

Anyway, let's put the cards on the table.

Miles Morales:
- Fat best friend, Ganke
- Less nerdy or rather a nerd in a time when that was accepted
- Lives in an apartment with his parents
- Goes to a magnet school which he qualified on scholarship and lottery

MCU Peter
- Fat best friend, Ned
- Less nerdy or rather a nerd in a time when that was accepted
- Lives in an apartment with his surrogate mother.
- Goes to a manget school which he qualified for on merit (the lottery part is not mentioned)

So I think based on this we can agree that MCU Peter is heavily inspired by Miles. Classic Peter in the Ditko era did not have friends in high school. Betty Brant, his girlfriend was co-worker at Daily Bugle and an office romance. Lee-Ditko's Peter HATED high school and couldn't wait to graduate, which he did in Issue #28. Unlike Quesada-Slottverse Peter who is this manchild, the original Peter Parker was a normal person who had the attitude to high school that most students actually do...it's only ten or 12 years later that people think of them as golden years but few have that attitude when they are in them.

When Bendis wrote Miles Morales he pointed out that when he did Ultimate Peter what he did was basically do the Romita era (Bagley explicitly modeled the pretty good-looking Ultimate Peter on Romita's) in an idealized high school environment that didn't have any connection to real high school, so it didn't have a lot of diversity, and it was basically Friends. Very well written and funny and entertaining and so on...and still faithful in that Peter is closer to his girlfriends and platonic lady friends than he is to any male friend. Miles Morales was the true modern contemporary teenage Spider-Man story. Someone who shared a background, reality, and connection to the 21st Century on a more immediate level than even Lee-Ditko's Peter did (remember that neither Lee or Ditko knew anything about teenagers in the 40s and 50s...the concept of teenager was invented during World War II itself and both of them were Depression kids). Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man actually over the course of the run had the characters and stories basically amount to alternate young versions of 616. Like Ultimate Peter and MJ are basically the teenage married couple which Bendis admitted multiple times in the book with all the references to them being married some day.

So when Sony-MCU did the high school Peter, they decided to do a modern contemporary take...and to do that their influences are going to have to be the ones that were most realistic....Miles Morales and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane (which Jon Watts cited). The whole idea of a John Hughes Spider-Man comes form the latter, there was even a Breakfast Club homage in one of the covers.

[Arsenal]

Miles Morales:
- Fat best friend, Ganke
- Less nerdy or rather a nerd in a time when that was accepted
- Lives in an apartment with his parents
- Goes to a magnet school which he qualified on scholarship and lottery

MCU Peter
- Fat best friend, Ned
- Less nerdy or rather a nerd in a time when that was accepted
- Lives in an apartment with his surrogate mother.
- Goes to a manget school which he qualified for on merit (the lottery part is not mentioned)

So I think based on this we can agree that MCU Peter is heavily inspired by Miles.

If that's all those characters have in common than I'm not sure why this is even an topic of discussion.

Ganke is obviously a given but the rest? Seriously? They are so insignificant and superficial they hardly seem worth mentioning. Come on, are we going to pretend MCU Peter and Miles are that similar because both aren't as nerdy or live in apartments with their parental figures? That's absurd.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't remember any focus being given to MCU Peter's school (not his school life, the school itself) nor do I remember Ultimate Peter being that much of a nerd either.


I'm just not seeing it.

[Tycon]

If that's all those characters have in common than I'm not sure why this is even an topic of discussion.

Ganke is obviously a given but the rest? Seriously? They are so insignificant and superficial they hardly seem worth mentioning. Come on, are we going to pretend MCU Peter and Miles are that similar because both aren't as nerdy or live in apartments with their parental figures? That's absurd.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't remember any focus being given to MCU Peter's school (not his school life, the school itself) nor do I remember Ultimate Peter being that much of a nerd either.


I'm just not seeing it.

These are comparisons that are directly affecting the character. That was a huge criticism with some fans of Ditko-era Spidey where they felt MCU Spidey wasn't really comics!Spidey. And, to be rather blunt, you asked for more evidence but when it gets presented to you, you act as if it's insignificant. Now I'm not sure if you have or haven't read Miles' title but those story beats you keep saying are "insignificant" are pretty important to Miles' mythos (and supporting cast) in establishing him as an individual separate from all the Peter Parkers that held the moniker.

[Arsenal]

These are comparisons that are directly affecting the character. That was a huge criticism with some fans of Ditko-era Spidey where they felt MCU Spidey wasn't really comics!Spidey.

Because he's not Ditko-era Spidey. He's more or less an early Ultimate Spidey (Iron Man fanboy and all) who lives in an apartment instead of a house. The quips aren't all there yet but he'll grow into them.

And, to be rather blunt, you asked for more evidence but when it gets presented to you, you act as if it's insignificant.

I wanted actual evidence, stuff along the lines of the Ganke and Ned. Not stuff like "These two characters are basically the same. Both aren't super nerdy! They live in apartments with their parental figures!! THEY GO TO HIGHSCHOOL!!!!!!!" That's not legitimate examples of one character ripping stuff from another, it's just vague examples of stuff they have in common.

I'm not sure if you have or haven't read Miles' title but those story beats you keep saying are "insignificant" are pretty important to Miles' mythos (and supporting cast) in establishing him as an individual separate from all the Peter Parkers that held the moniker.

I have read every single Miles Morals book, so yeah I have a decent idea of what helps establish Mile as an individual from all the Parkers that held the moniker. I'm not disregarding the story beats to Miles, but to MCU Peter.

Between the 3 movies MCU Peter's been in so far, little to no importance has been placed on:
- Peter living with his aunt in an apartment
- The kind of school he goes to
- not being a stereotypical nerd

Maybe that'll change going forward but based on what I've seen so far it's no different than claiming all 4 Robins are the same character when they clearly aren't.

[Frontier]

No. I’ve never watched MCU Spider-man and thought “hey! That’s Miles Morales !!”. He’s a modern version of teenage (Ultimate) Peter Parker that fits within the MCU.

I really don't see much of Ultimate Peter in him to be honest.

He's nowhere near the neurotic and emotional mess Ultimate Pete was. Granted, his life so far seems to be a lot easier, even with the Spider-Man stuff.

Nah. Peter Parker was for sure Peter Parker in the MCU version. Even with Ned. People forget that Peter did actually have a constant group of friends/peers to bounce of off when he was a teen himself.

There's a difference between that and the level of involvement Ganke had in Peter's life as Spider-Man in the movie.

By the way, you do know that Ultimate Peter didn't built his own suit, right? In fact, it was explicitly shown that he sucked at it, he couldn't even properly sew the eye lens.

Oh yeah, it was a wrestling company that gave him the base suit, right? Peter just added the details to it.

(Still better then the Starksuit).

"The nerd outcast" thing is done to death and Amazing movies did it so bad no wonder MCU took a different route. And it's 2018, "nerd outcast" is old-fashioned, being a nerd is pretty much cool now.

I would still say "the nerd outcast" is a pretty important Peter Parker trait, at least if he's a teenager.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Because he's not Ditko-era Spidey. He's more or less an early Ultimate Spidey (Iron Man fanboy and all) ...

Ultimate Peter Parker:
1) Lived in an actual suburban house in Forest Hills, Queens just like 616.
2) Was the son of a genius scientist Richard Parker.
3) Was motivated by the death of Uncle Ben (unmentioned in Homecoming)
4) Got his powers from Oscorp
5) Closest friend and confidant was girlfriend Mary Jane Watson.

Ultimate Peter was more or less a composite, a mix of Conway (Parallel Lives with MJ knowing Peter was Spider-Man from way back, as well as Ultimate MJ usually wearing purple which is based on her outift in the epilogue of ASM #122 where the original printing had her in purple) and Romita, and not much Ditko. Iron Man fanboy is also not accurate. Spider-Man didn't become friendly with Iron Man until Post-Ultimatum. His longest lasting relationship was Nick Fury who was his push-pull mentor/handler. Jon Watts originally wanted Fury but was overruled with Iron Man which significantly changed the story.

...So again, your argument is invalid.

Between the 3 movies MCU Peter's been in so far, little to no importance has been placed on:...

That doesn't change the fact that the stuff is there.

Again please do not argue in bad faith or just in an attempt to insult a viewpoint you do not share.