Is Homecoming ripping off Miles Morales?

[regg215]

Because he's not Ditko-era Spidey. He's more or less an early Ultimate Spidey (Iron Man fanboy and all) who lives in an apartment instead of a house. The quips aren't all there yet but he'll grow into them.

I wanted actual evidence, stuff along the lines of the Ganke and Ned. Not stuff like "These two characters are basically the same. Both aren't super nerdy! They live in apartments with their parental figures!! THEY GO TO HIGHSCHOOL!!!!!!!" That's not legitimate examples of one character ripping stuff from another, it's just vague examples of stuff they have in common.

I have read every single Miles Morals book, so yeah I have a decent idea of what helps establish Mile as an individual from all the Parkers that held the moniker. I'm not disregarding the story beats to Miles, but to MCU Peter.

Between the 3 movies MCU Peter's been in so far, little to no importance has been placed on:
- Peter living with his aunt in an apartment
- The kind of school he goes to
- not being a stereotypical nerd

Maybe that'll change going forward but based on what I've seen so far it's no different than claiming all 4 Robins are the same character when they clearly aren't.

Exactly. If those are the qualifications for "stealing" someone's story, then every single comic character ever has "stolen" from another character. The second Peter becomes the second spider-man after the original dies or if somehow uncle ben shows up as a criminal involved in Peter becoming Spider-man then the concerns would be valid. The fact that Miles just had a movie where he literally uses the same superhero name as Peter, got his powers the same way, and is romantically linked to gwen stacy is way more than anything the MCU did.

Ned is certainly a case where they borrowed something from Miles and I get where that could somewhat anger people but borrowing from different characters for story purposes has happened quite often in the MCU. Iron Man was handed hank pym's role in creating ultron, because it made more sense from a story perspective and Ned seems to be the same case. MCU clearly wanted to differentiate from the previous iterations of the character so they adopted that element, the same way they changed Mary Jane. Including Ned as Peter's confidant in no way limits Miles' story. They have already introduced Aaron Davis in the movies and mentioned Miles, for all we know they could kill off Peter after a couple of films and replace him as miles and have Ned fill the same role for miles. And again it's great that Miles has fans and he certainly is a good character. It's great that so many people are attached to him so strongly in such a relatively short amount of time. He and Peter can absolutely co-exist like they do in the 616 now and it would even be great if the MCU would go the route that the PS4 games seem to be going with the characters existing as superheros at the same time.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The fact that Miles just had a movie where he literally uses the same superhero name as Peter, got his powers the same way, and is romantically linked to gwen stacy is way more than anything the MCU did.

Since the issue of geography is clear, we can now get to brass tacks. First of all Miles is not romantically linked to Gwen Stacy. He's romantically flirtatious to Spider-Gwen. A pre-established AU version of Gwen published in a popular comic series. The way you write this is that you make it sound that this was something made for the film. It wasn't. Both Miles and Spider-Gwen are in the comics. Spider-Gwen is an entirely different character from 616 Gwen Stacy, or at the very least has the same relation as 616 Peter does to Ultimate Peter. Spidey-Gwen WAS NEVER a love interest for Peter Parker. She's teenage...and is closer to Miles' sensibility. Miles was likewise created as a legacy character for Peter Parker in Ultimate Spider-Man. And while he did get powers from a spider-bite he has abilities -- camouflage and venom strike -- that's different from Peter's.

[Tycon]

Because he's not Ditko-era Spidey. He's more or less an early Ultimate Spidey (Iron Man fanboy and all) who lives in an apartment instead of a house. The quips aren't all there yet but he'll grow into them.

I wanted actual evidence, stuff along the lines of the Ganke and Ned. Not stuff like "These two characters are basically the same. Both aren't super nerdy! They live in apartments with their parental figures!! THEY GO TO HIGHSCHOOL!!!!!!!" That's not legitimate examples of one character ripping stuff from another, it's just vague examples of stuff they have in common.

I have read every single Miles Morals book, so yeah I have a decent idea of what helps establish Mile as an individual from all the Parkers that held the moniker. I'm not disregarding the story beats to Miles, but to MCU Peter.

Between the 3 movies MCU Peter's been in so far, little to no importance has been placed on:
- Peter living with his aunt in an apartment
- The kind of school he goes to
- not being a stereotypical nerd

Maybe that'll change going forward but based on what I've seen so far it's no different than claiming all 4 Robins are the same character when they clearly aren't.

You keep simplifying points then complaining that it isn’t proof enough. The point isn’t that he isn’t a stereotypical nerd or he’s going to a specific type of school, but that specific attributes that differentiate Miles are being stolen and used as prop work for MCU Peter. If you don’t get it, then that’s fine. But he point is, Miles was given a different background that altered his experiences as Spider-Man and for that to just be given to Peter is cheap and annoying. This clearly isn’t coming from nowhere.

[WebSlingWonder]

Hey, let's all talk about something else. Like, anything else entirely. Sounds good? Good!

[Killerbee911]

Considering that we just had a Miles movie where he gets his power from a spider bite, calls himself Spider-man, fights many of Peter's villains, is awkward around girls, is seen as an outcast at school, has overprotective family members, has gwen stacy as a love interest, lives in the same area that Peter is from, is defined by relationship/tragedy with uncle, uses webs, sticks to walls, I would say that Miles is stealing much more from Peter. I mean to act like Miles is an original character is ridiculous. This would be like if I created a new character that lived in gotham, traveled the world and learned fighting and detective skills, called himself Batman, used batarangs and a batmobile, romanced vicky vale, fought Joker and Riddler and was motivated by a death in his family but was named John Smith instead of bruce wayne and he had a best friend that knew his identity. People wouldn't say "what an original character" he would be seen as a batman ripoff and rightfully so. Miles is a good character and it's great that he has loyal fans who like him but at the end of the day he only exists because of the popularity of Peter, acting like Peter is taking anything away from Miles is ridiculous.
.

The thing it isn't that. Miles clearly a legacy character of Peter,They are suppose to be similarities. And as a fan Miles you have had live with he is just "Black Peter Parker" and "there is nothing unique about him" but as time goes on every legacy becomes their own thing no matter how much they were similar to original. And Miles "clearly" has gotten his own lane and his own original stuff,his own unique take on the Spiderman Mythos. To give better example this like Batman being reboot as movie and all of sudden Batman is in Bludhaven,his bat suit has blue in it instead of gold, and Batman best friend is Cyborg and dating Starfire.No doubt Nightwing is a spin on Batman and owes everything to Batman but Nightwing has clear unique elements.

Just because something is the original doesn't mean it can't be copying the character that very much is mimicking it .It is problematic because a character like Miles is already fighting to be different but unavoidably can't help being familiar so it takes subtle difference to be different. So taking even superficial things from character who came after pretty hard on new character. Peter has a rich history and no reason to be dipping into Miles very tiny original territory even on the superficial level, Heck Peter has Ultimate Peter to lean on for a modern take Spiderman. Miles has an establish unique lane and things he is specifically bring to Spiderman mythos yes it is annoying to fans after being called not original,knock off ,rip off, clone and copy by fans of Peter for Peter to end up using stuff similar to Miles. You can tell hundreds of Peter Parker stories and Peter will never come anywhere close to being similar to Miles, The reverse isn't true Miles has very small lane of things that can be done. Just look at into enter Spiderverse ,Miles uncle dies which is great touch and is a catalyst but guess what is riff on Peter story even though the two stories are way different. If Miles is too smart he is copying Peter,If he is too funny he is copying Peter, If He going through a bunch of tragedies he is being like Peter. Miles has small space of originality to work with and Peter at least in the movie world is yeah using thing from Miles

[regg215]

The thing it isn't that. Miles clearly a legacy character of Peter,They are suppose to be similarities. And as a fan Miles you have had live with he is just "Black Peter Parker" and "there is nothing unique about him" but as time goes on every legacy becomes their own thing no matter how much they were similar to original. And Miles "clearly" has gotten his own lane and his own original stuff,his own unique take on the Spiderman Mythos. To give better example this like Batman being reboot as movie and all of sudden Batman is in Bludhaven,his bat suit has blue in it instead of gold, and Batman best friend is Cyborg and dating Starfire.No doubt Nightwing is a spin on Batman and owes everything to Batman but Nightwing has clear unique elements.

Just because something is the original doesn't mean it can't be copying the character that very much is mimicking it .It is problematic because a character like Miles is already fighting to be different but unavoidably can't help being familiar so it takes subtle difference to be different. So taking even superficial things from character who came after pretty hard on new character. Peter has a rich history and no reason to be dipping into Miles very tiny original territory even on the superficial level, Heck Peter has Ultimate Peter to lean on for a modern take Spiderman. Miles has an establish unique lane and things he is specifically bring to Spiderman mythos yes it is annoying to fans after being called not original,knock off ,rip off, clone and copy by fans of Peter for Peter to end up using stuff similar to Miles. You can tell hundreds of Peter Parker stories and Peter will never come anywhere close to being similar to Miles, The reverse isn't true Miles has very small lane of things that can be done. Just look at into enter Spiderverse ,Miles uncle dies which is great touch and is a catalyst but guess what is riff on Peter story even though the two stories are way different. If Miles is too smart he is copying Peter,If he is too funny he is copying Peter, If He going through a bunch of tragedies he is being like Peter. Miles has small space of originality to work with and Peter at least in the movie world is yeah using thing from Miles

Thanks for the great response, really appreciate what you are saying and the way that you put it. I certainly imagine that it can get annoying with people trashing Miles or saying that anything that happens to him is a rip off of Peter. Comics are a medium where pretty much every story is a riff on something that has happened to another character, heck Batman who has been around forever is in many ways an imitation of zorro and other characters that existed before him, so I am sure as Miles fans him being singled out for something that happens to pretty much every character can get annoying. Given how much Miles borrows from Peter I didn't really see "Ned" or some of the other details as a big deal or encroaching on Miles' story all that much but given what you stated I can get where to Miles fans it would be something concerning. I am still of the opinion that the MCU portrayal of Peter is much closer to Peter than Miles but obviously opinions can differ and that's completely cool. In the end Hopefully the MCU can find a way to utilize both characters in a way that makes both fan bases happy.

[Arsenal]

I really don't see much of Ultimate Peter in him to be honest.

He's nowhere near the neurotic and emotional mess Ultimate Pete was. Granted, his life so far seems to be a lot easier, even with the Spider-Man stuff.

There's a difference between that and the level of involvement Ganke had in Peter's life as Spider-Man in the movie.

Oh yeah, it was a wrestling company that gave him the base suit, right? Peter just added the details to it.

(Still better then the Starksuit).

He gets it from the wrestling Company and if I remember right, Mary Jane takes over responsibility of the suit when Peter tells her who he is .

Ultimate Peter Parker:
1) Lived in an actual suburban house in Forest Hills, Queens just like 616.
2) Was the son of a genius scientist Richard Parker.
3) Was motivated by the death of Uncle Ben (unmentioned in Homecoming)
4) Got his powers from Oscorp
5) Closest friend and confidant was girlfriend Mary Jane Watson.

Ultimate Peter was more or less a composite, a mix of Conway (Parallel Lives with MJ knowing Peter was Spider-Man from way back, as well as Ultimate MJ usually wearing purple which is based on her outift in the epilogue of ASM #122 where the original printing had her in purple) and Romita, and not much Ditko. Iron Man fanboy is also not accurate. Spider-Man didn't become friendly with Iron Man until Post-Ultimatum. His longest lasting relationship was Nick Fury who was his push-pull mentor/handler. Jon Watts originally wanted Fury but was overruled with Iron Man which significantly changed the story.

...So again, your argument is invalid.

So you are going to say MCU Peter steals from Miles by citing some incredibly vague comparisons but state that MCU Peter and Ultimate Peter have nothing in common by selectively citing incredibly specific aspects unique to Ultimate Peter? Alright.

Does that mean MCU Peter is completely different from Miles because:
1) He didn't become a superhero out of guilt when somebody with his powers was killed but he did nothing about it
2) Invented his own web fluid
3) Made his own suit
4) Became an avenger and fought a purple giant alien on another planet
5) helped Tony Stark fly/crash and alien space ship

or are we going to ignore that, like ultimate peter, MCU peter:

1) wants to join the ultimates/avengers (I know this is stated somewhere with-in the Ultimate Spider-man series)
2) Massive Iron Man fans (see below for examples)
3) Aren't massive nerds but clearly extremely unpopular at school
4) Terrible at concealing their secret IDs a secret
5) Incredibly smart
6) Swing around NYC under the philosophy that when you have the power to stop bad people but don't, any bad stuff that happens because of you (or, you know, "with great power comes great responsibility" if you want to keep it short)

As for the Iron Man fanboy bit: Yeah he is. As shown in Ultimate Team Up issues 4,5 as well as Ultimate Comics Spider-Man 153 where he calls Tony one of his all time favorite heroes. The kid is a massive Tony Stark stan. He even says the "Mr. Stark" phrase that Frontier hates so much

That doesn't change the fact that the stuff is there.

Again please do not argue in bad faith or just in an attempt to insult a viewpoint you do not share.

I am not attempting to insult a viewpoint. I genuinely do not understand it and was hoping to gain more insight but so far the information presented has largely been underwhelming and unconvincing.

Besides, if the only thing that differentiates Miles from Peter were the 4 things you presented than he'd be a pretty shitty character. But he's not. He's actually pretty great!! So how about we give Miles some credit here instead of acting like the relatively minor similarities between both versions of Spidey some how make them virtually identical.

Edit:

The thing it isn't that. Miles clearly a legacy character of Peter,They are suppose to be similarities. And as a fan Miles you have had live with he is just "Black Peter Parker" and "there is nothing unique about him" but as time goes on every legacy becomes their own thing no matter how much they were similar to original. And Miles "clearly" has gotten his own lane and his own original stuff,his own unique take on the Spiderman Mythos. To give better example this like Batman being reboot as movie and all of sudden Batman is in Bludhaven,his bat suit has blue in it instead of gold, and Batman best friend is Cyborg and dating Starfire.No doubt Nightwing is a spin on Batman and owes everything to Batman but Nightwing has clear unique elements.

Just because something is the original doesn't mean it can't be copying the character that very much is mimicking it .It is problematic because a character like Miles is already fighting to be different but unavoidably can't help being familiar so it takes subtle difference to be different. So taking even superficial things from character who came after pretty hard on new character. Peter has a rich history and no reason to be dipping into Miles very tiny original territory even on the superficial level, Heck Peter has Ultimate Peter to lean on for a modern take Spiderman. Miles has an establish unique lane and things he is specifically bring to Spiderman mythos yes it is annoying to fans after being called not original,knock off ,rip off, clone and copy by fans of Peter for Peter to end up using stuff similar to Miles. You can tell hundreds of Peter Parker stories and Peter will never come anywhere close to being similar to Miles, The reverse isn't true Miles has very small lane of things that can be done. Just look at into enter Spiderverse ,Miles uncle dies which is great touch and is a catalyst but guess what is riff on Peter story even though the two stories are way different. If Miles is too smart he is copying Peter,If he is too funny he is copying Peter, If He going through a bunch of tragedies he is being like Peter. Miles has small space of originality to work with and Peter at least in the movie world is yeah using thing from Miles

This is the kind of response I was looking for. I may not agree with it but I can understand why some people would be so touchy about it.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

So you are going to say MCU Peter steals from Miles by citing some incredibly vague comparisons but state that MCU Peter and Ultimate Peter have nothing in common by selectively citing incredibly specific aspects unique to Ultimate Peter

There is nothing vague about saying that MCU Peter like Miles goes to a Magnet School and has a Fat Best Friend. You are arguing in bad faith and trying to gaslight me and others here because you simply refuse to concede or walk away.

I am not attempting to insult a viewpoint. I genuinely do not understand it and was hoping to gain more insight but so far the information presented has largely been underwhelming and unconvincing.

I suggest you quit clutching pearls. You are starting to sound like Mr. Quesada and others who claim to understand people who didn't like OMD.

[Mistah K88]

I wouldn’t say going to a magnet school is something Miles originated for Spider-Man. Peter went to a Magnet school in the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series (i.e. before Miles existed). M3 or Midtown Manhattan Magnet was simply a modernization of Peter’s academic side when it came to school, surely someone as gifted as Peter would go to an advanced school.

Ned/Ganke IS total plagiarism though. However methinks that Peter’s secret identity being the worst kept secret in Superheroics came from Ultimate in general.

[blackspidey2099]

Absolutely.

It feels like Homecoming was written for Miles and then later switched to Peter.

Honestly, yeah. I definitely wouldn't have hated Homecoming so much if they had dropped the pretense and just released it as a Miles Morales film. As a Peter Parker film, though, it does a terrible job.

[Jokerz79]

IMO the only element taken from Miles was Ganke because "Ned" was Ganke and that annoys me because Peter has a great supporting cast perhaps best in comics and Miles doesn't to take from Miles instead of pulling someone from Peter's cast was wrong. I saw the Ned actor with a shaved head and immediately thought why wasn't he Kong?

Now I think Holland is the best Peter Parker ever put to live action but wasn't a big fan of Homecoming overall still thinking Raimi's Spider-Man (2002) and Spider-Man 2 are better heck Into the Spider-Verse was better to me. But have no issues with the changes made to accommodate the story and think many people miss the mark and just focus on the "Peter trying to impress Tony angle"

I grew up watching Adam West's Batman and saw Keaton's Batman at 10 and loved both still do but people always would say with both versions "How did Batman get the Batcave?" Then comes along Nolan and streamlines it and explains it and the audience is like "oh that makes sense". I mean it's a legitimate question "How does a poor kid from Queens make the Spider Suit?" Well he makes a cheap makeshift one and Tony supplies the real one also as someone who first introduction to Spidey was Amazing Friends Tony supplying tech isn't new to me. As for Tony I will say it makes more sense here than in the comics when Peter and Tony were Avengers leading up to Civil War Peter was a grown man in the comics so idolizing Tony was weird. Here Peter is a 16 year old kid who has idolized Tony and the Avengers for years so it makes sense when his heroes comes to the door he'd want to impress them. The cosmetic changes also makes sense a struggling family in Queens is more likely to rent an apartment than own a home and a kid's Aunt would be in her early 50's and not pushing 80.

IMO the MCU while it may change things it gets the core of their characters right when Peter is with Aunt May that is the Peter I recognize from the comics same for his relationships with his friends and when he's fighting the bad guys. I'd rather the MCU get a character right over the details of what got him there and sorry I'm fine with a comment about "Allowing the bad things happens" over another Uncle Ben death scene him and the Waynes need a vacation.

So basically I feel things were changed but to makes sense to fit Peter in both a "real" world and the MCU world while keeping his core true to who he is and I'm ok with that the only thing that rubs me the wrong way was taking Ganke from Miles and calling him Ned.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I mean it's a legitimate question "How does a poor kid from Queens make the Spider Suit?"

Yes because we all know poor people have no talent, skills, and abilities and need rich people to bestow on them goodies.

Seriously, the Spider-Man costume in the comics was never this great sophisticated thing, even way back then many pointed out it was a cheap-looking costume and in an early issue, after Spider-Man becomes famous, Peter sees a replica costume that looks more professional than his, and buys that and repurposes it. In other words Peter kitbashes, improvises, and iterates and so on. It was never especially difficult to believe that Peter could create the Spider-Man outfit.

[SpiderClops]

Yes because we all know poor people have no talent, skills, and abilities and need rich people to bestow on them goodies.

Seriously, the Spider-Man costume in the comics was never this great sophisticated thing, even way back then many pointed out it was a cheap-looking costume and in an early issue, after Spider-Man becomes famous, Peter sees a replica costume that looks more professional than his, and buys that and repurposes it. In other words Peter kitbashes, improvises, and iterates and so on. It was never especially difficult to believe that Peter could create the Spider-Man outfit.

It's not about talent, skills or abilities. It's about money and resources. Not to mention that the skills and talent needed for making a skin-tight costume are much much different than how good are you at maths and science.

And he did make his own suit. Why do people want to ignore it? Because it wasn't the sophisticated detailed awesome looking suit that he could not have made with the resources he had?

Seriously, it's like people are slamming Homecoming for trying to be more believable. Living in an apartment, age-appropriate casting of Aunt May, the diverse school, not being outcast for being a nerd, Tony Stark fan. How dare they do things that make complete sense?

[Jokerz79]

It's not about talent, skills or abilities. It's about money and resources. Not to mention that the skills and talent needed for making a skin-tight costume are much much different than how good are you at maths and science.

And he did make his own suit. Why do people want to ignore it? Because it wasn't the sophisticated detailed awesome looking suit that he could not have made with the resources he had?

Seriously, it's like people are slamming Homecoming for trying to be more believable. Living in an apartment, age-appropriate casting of Aunt May, the diverse school, not being outcast for being a nerd, Tony Stark fan. How dare they do things that make complete sense?

Exactly we give leeway in comics but a general audience isn't as generous and if they're going to accept the big stuff like a kid with Spidey powers they like the little things to make sense as a trade off.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's not about talent, skills or abilities. It's about money and resources. Not to mention that the skills and talent needed for making a skin-tight costume are much much different than how good are you at maths and science.

Peter created his own webbing formula, which given that it is a synthetic adhesive that goes from liquid to solid threads, requires an understanding of industrial chemicals and fabrics. So boom...there are your skills needed for the material, make, fabric and so on that goes into costume creation. We are never told what are the components Peter uses to create this special formula, but the understanding is that it's cheap and so on. If he can find it on the cheap to make his web-fluid, the same applies to his costume.

So already AF #15 gave you by context, visuals, and implication all the information the audience needs to piece together how Peter created his own costume.

What makes you think the Spider-Man costume needs money and resources to make? Those VR headsets and doo-dads were never part of Spidey's toolset. He had super-senses to do all that for him.

Seriously, it's like people are slamming Homecoming for trying to be more believable. Living in an apartment, age-appropriate casting of Aunt May, the diverse school, not being outcast for being a nerd, Tony Stark fan. How dare they do things that make complete sense?

Peter not being an outcast or a nerd is a rewrite of a fundamental part of who he is as a character and annexing stuff specifically from Miles Morales, as is living in an apartment.

I don't have problems with the diverse school. The de-aging of Aunt May is expected but the overt objectification and Male Gaze she's subjected to and self-congratulatory jokes about them making Aunt May hot...yeah that's a little weird. As for being a Tony Stark fan, again Peter in 616 was a Reed Richards' stan so it's fine.