X-Men Cinematic Universe

[yogaflame]

There's a BIG difference between adapting a single self-contained story, and adapting a 50 year-old franchise containing hundreds of stories across dozens of volumes and spinoffs.

Claremont's run is a self-contained story.

[vasir12]

Really hope they spring for the costumes in NM. That would make me even more excited.

[Divine Spark]

CONTINUITY. Calling this franchise a cinematic universe is kind of a stretch cause everything is just so far flung from each other. What are we building towards exactly? The MCU has the Infinity War and the DCEU as Darkseid. For the X-men, though, there is no connection.

They have said that they were building to the Phoenix saga. Ever notice how Jean and Apocalypse were having the same vision of the world ending? Its a rip from Ultimate X-Men, where Jean has visions of an Egyptian Phoenix God that ends the world.





Which is something Wolverine and The X-Men adapted.



Fox is just more subtle about what they were building to compared to the MCU and DCEU.

I'm still trying to figure out how Kurt got into that fight club.

What fight club? I think you mean gladiator match to the death. I doubt anyone cares about that, the same way nobody cared about how Weapon X got Kurt in X2.

DCEU and MCU got that on lock.

The fight scenes in Suicide Squad were terrible. That movie had the worse action scenes this year.

It would also be cool if they would just go full sci-fi. X-men are known for some crazy adventures but they never do it. Talking Space and time.

They already stated that they plan on the doing that. Apocalypse planted the seeds with him having alien technology. New Mutants is stated to have aliens in it.

[iacobusleo]

And that self-contained story contained bizarre stuff like a clone of Jean Grey becoming a demon queen who plunged New York into a hell that resembles Ghostbusters, a battle against a Native American spirit of unknown origin in the Adversary only to receive intervention by the Omniversal Guardian Roma who gave them a magic mirror that transports them anywhere on the condition that they will receive a tabula rasa, and its closing run included Storm being turned into a child.

I know you said you don't want a word for word, panel for panel adaptation, but honestly? Your idea for a first movie: A new team being assembled to save an old team from a living island, while true to the comics, isn't interesting. These movies come out once every few years, so every time a new movie comes out, it HAS to say something interesting, and doubly so since its politics are what set them apart from all other superhero movies. A living island as a villain, and a rescue mission as your movie's hook, just isn't a compelling conflict for your movie to hinge on.

In addition, whether you like it or not, most directors come in with something to say about the property they are adapting. It is futile to stifle their creativity just so we can keep all the plot elements comic accurate. Even the most comic faithful director will have his/her own spin on things.

The movies need to adapt the SPIRIT of Claremont's stories and characters, not the plot elements. So your first movie for example. The hook could be as you suggested, a new team rescuing an old team, but the villain definitely should not be a living island. You can do the character stuff of Fall of the Mutants (Storm and Forge reconnecting in their little slice of paradise, which gives Storm the tools she need to regain her powers), but beyond the plot element of there being portals to other dimensions appearing all over Dallas, I think it's wise to remove the whole conflict between Adversary and Roma. And so on and so forth.

So, adapt the SPIRIT and CHARACTER PROGRESSION of Claremont's stories, but the PLOT ELEMENTS it is perfectly fine to take from other runs.

[Divine Spark]

A new team being assembled to save an old team from a living island, while true to the comics, isn't interesting.

That was basically the plot of X-Men: Apocalypse anyway. Even Kurt's reintroduction was kinda adapted from Giant-Sized, where is saved from humans and then joins Xavier's school.

[yogaflame]

Honestly, it would be very topical and interesting to adapt Krakoa today. Environmentalism and the impact of military industrial complex on the environment is very much a topic of mass interest. And the visuals alone of a team of teenagers/young adults throwing an island into space would be amazing.

Far moreso than beating up on a blue man. At any rate, Krakoa doesn't even matter so much as they character beats themselves. Seeing Kurt chased by a mob or Ororo bringing rain to a drought-stricken land would be very powerful. Giant Sized would be about world building. Showing the diverse(read global market) circumstances of young mutants is right on target with the movie trends of today(we just have to figure out a good Chinese mutant, I don't think Jubilee has enough punch, and Xorn is such a mess, but maybe he can be retooled).

The MCU has built billions on their strong, fun heroes, without much need for compelling villains. The X-Men themselves(as a team) have largely been lost in the Fox movies. Let's bring those characters to screen, as Wein and Claremont crafted them, and the world will follow them to tropical islands, far off galaxies, or into the tunnels under NYC with baited breath.

[yogaflame]

That was basically the plot of X-Men: Apocalypse anyway. Even Kurt's reintroduction was kinda adapted from Giant-Sized, where is saved from humans and then joins Xavier's school.

In the most loose of strokes. Kurt was saved from an angry mob(who were chasing him out of feat and hatred, the absolute core of the X-mythos) by Xavier, not from a cage fight by Mystique. Focus on their actual histories and their actual character relationships and you can have a powerful franchise to stand up to the MCU and DCEU.

[Divine Spark]

In the most loose of strokes. Kurt was saved from an angry mob(who were chasing him out of feat and hatred, the absolute core of the X-mythos) by Xavier, not from a cage fight by Mystique. Focus on their actual histories and their actual character relationships and you can have a powerful franchise to stand up to the MCU and DCEU.

I did say it was "kinda" adapted. That "cage fight" was set-up by humans who feared and hated mutants. Mystique even says that was the case.

But doing a Giant-Size X-Men movie is just another Amazing Spider-Man waiting to happen, but worse. That movie attracted far less of an audience than the first Spider-Man film because it was just the same story as that movie. The reason why a Giant-Size movie would be worse is because its right after XMA compared to the ASM which came out a decade after SM1.

[akiresu_]

I actually just want them to give up on continuity. Deadpool and Logan both come across as predominantly stand-alone and think they're both better for it. Sure this doesn't mean stopping sequels, but we don't need everything to tie-in and be accurate to every little detail. Have an X-Men franchise, a Wolverine franchise, Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutants, whatever, but keep them separate and let filmmakers focus on one film rather than planning out an entire slate.

[Ambaryerno]

I actually just want them to give up on continuity. Deadpool and Logan both come across as predominantly stand-alone and think they're both better for it. Sure this doesn't mean stopping sequels, but we don't need everything to tie-in and be accurate to every little detail. Have an X-Men franchise, a Wolverine franchise, Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutants, whatever, but keep them separate and let filmmakers focus on one film rather than planning out an entire slate.

I think we're well beyond the point where that's a viable strategy these days. For better or worse, the MCU has changed the game on franchise films. End result you have a Star Trek reboot that's been hamfistedly tied into the original canon, and even MORE shared universes are coming (IE The Mummy reboot is going to be part of a larger "Universal Monsters" universe). Unfortunately it's left Fox in a difficult position since unlike Marvel and the DCEU they have to piece it together on the fly.

[iacobusleo]

Honestly, it would be very topical and interesting to adapt Krakoa today. Environmentalism and the impact of military industrial complex on the environment is very much a topic of mass interest.

That's interesting, but again, that sentence alone implies that we need more down to earth human elements as our villains. In that scenario, Krakoa won't be our villain like how it was in the source material, it's simply a byproduct of the real villain.

The MCU has built billions on their strong, fun heroes, without much need for compelling villains. The X-Men themselves(as a team) have largely been lost in the Fox movies. Let's bring those characters to screen, as Wein and Claremont crafted them, and the world will follow them to tropical islands, far off galaxies, or into the tunnels under NYC with baited breath.

Exactly my point. We need to build the heroes first, ONLY THEN can we have a more bizarre movie in which the villain is a tropical island. The first reboot movie needs to be a statement of intent, not just for the characters, but for the themes and tone of the entire franchise as well. An exact replica of Giant Size won't do that because the tropical island speaks little to themes of what the entire franchise is about, and the fact that it introduces A LOT of characters (the Original 5 AND the All New), and yet most of the Original 5 (and that's not even counting Havok and Polaris if we are being THAT faithful), are only MacGuffins and dudes/damsels in distress with no room for character development.

A more suitable first installment in a reboot would be an adaptation of the Morlocks, I feel. Have Kitty be the audience surrogate, the newcomer into a world where a team has been established (Storm, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Wolverine), and let the story be about the X-Men's first meeting with the Morlocks. Such a story will clearly lay out the structure of the world and the themes we will explore: The class divide even amongst mutants themselves (the 'pretty' mutants such as the X-Men against the mutants who cannot pass in human society), the Morlocks being both victims and aggressors in the conflict between humans and mutants, the exploration of interesting locations such as the underground NYC tunnels and Morlock society within, and ample character development and a clear character arc for major characters like Storm (her knife in the dark fight against Callisto and her ascension to Morlock leadership would be one of the movie's turning points).

[vasir12]

They have said that they were building to the Phoenix saga. Ever notice how Jean and Apocalypse were having the same vision of the world ending? Its a rip from Ultimate X-Men, where Jean has visions of an Egyptian Phoenix God that ends the world.

Yeah, I got that but what does this have to do with Logan, Deadpool, and New Mutants? Hard to connect things when they're decades apart.

Fox is just more subtle about what they were building to compared to the MCU and DCEU.

Literally, the only reference for the DPS was in Apocalypse. In no other movie was this ever evident.

What fight club? I think you mean gladiator match to the death. I doubt anyone cares about that, the same way nobody cared about how Weapon X got Kurt in X2.

So we just gonna accept characters having no backstory?

The fight scenes in Suicide Squad were terrible. That movie had the worse action scenes this year.

Not sure why you're comparing the supposed flagship of a franchise to a lower budget spin-off. Compare X-men fights to Avengers/MoS/BvS

They already stated that they plan on the doing that. Apocalypse planted the seeds with him having alien technology. New Mutants is stated to have aliens in it.

That's cool. It's been about 9 movies before this point, but that's cool.

[yogaflame]

Hopping into the middle of the story like that doesn't help. Storm's knife fight with Callisto was only so interesting because we had seen Ororo as this peaceful goddess for about 70 issues before that happened.

The 05(-Hank, and +Lorna and Alex) don't need a ton of characterization to get this moving. I could write a 3 minute scene that conveys their core personalities(as of 1975) and relationships with more reverence than any of the Fox films have done so far. The first movie doesn't have to be a complete treaties(we are aiming for a franchise with many, many movies and spin offs). It simply has so introduce the audience to these characters, and leave them wanting more(which is exactly what the actual Giant Sized does).

[yogaflame]

That's interesting, but again, that sentence alone implies that we need more down to earth human elements as our villains. In that scenario, Krakoa won't be our villain like how it was in the source material, it's simply a byproduct of the real villain.

Did you forget Krakoa's origin, as revealed in Giant Sized? He was the result of atomic testing.



You could even call the movie X-Men:Children of the Atom

Add a bit of Charle's father's backstory as an atomic scientist and you have this thing wrapped up prettier than an X-Mas present under the tree!

[iacobusleo]

Hopping into the middle of the story like that doesn't help. Storm's knife fight with Callisto was only so interesting because we had seen Ororo as this peaceful goddess for about 70 issues before that happened.

The 05(-Hank, and +Lorna and Alex) don't need a ton of characterization to get this moving. I could write a 3 minute scene that conveys their core personalities(as of 1975) and relationships with more reverence than any of the Fox films have done so far.

That's a very bold claim. I will believe it when I see it. I could make a similar argument and say that I could write Ororo as a peaceful goddess and convey what I need in about half a movie, sufficient for her fight with Callisto to have impact. Powerful character-driven movies which are just about under 2 hours have given us similar character arcs with the same amount of impact, and they don't need 70 issues to do it.

The first movie doesn't have to be a complete treaties(we are aiming for a franchise with many, many movies and spin offs).

It simply has so introduce the audience to these characters, and leave them wanting more(which is exactly what the actual Giant Sized does).

You forget that X-Men is not under Marvel Studios, nor does it have the audience goodwill for it to be set up as a franchise with many many movies. The reboot movie must be a treaties that is standalone enough that it tells a complete story, with the important X-Men themes prominent. Tell a good story first, don't have the story just be a sequel bait. That's how Deadpool worked and that's why it's big enough to have a franchise on its own.

About Krakoa, I remember perfectly well his origin. That still doesn't make him a compelling villain by himself. You instead proved my point. Krakoa is not a villain that drives a story forward, he was merely a reaction to greater evils committed by man. Krakoa is merely a destructive force of nature brought to life. That's why I say you need a human face to Krakoa's evil.

See my point? If even we can't agree how to best reboot the X-Men and we are both diehard followers of the comic, what makes you think just following Claremont's stories to the T would be the perfect solution for Fox that will please everyone, full stop? And as we've seen from other posters, some people are sick of going through character introductions again, especially in a franchise that has done this THREE times. A skilled writer can provide the necessary character background and jump straight into action, no need to devote an entire movie to assembling a team, again.