X-Men Cinematic Universe

[SpiderClops]

The X-Men actually have way more character than Sif, the trio, and Janet though. Fucking Janet is the second longest running leader of The Avengers and got replaced by an obscure MC2 character. She without a doubt got screwed over. She is actually worse off than Scott.

Scott is the longest running leader of the X-Men. And he was basically a punching bag. The makers of the first trilogy clearly hated him. Let's steal his bike. Let's call him a dick for no reason. Let's steal his car now. Oh look, he has bad taste in music. Let's give him off-screen death(f&*k the scheduling conflicts) and then barely mention him. He's way more screwed over than Janet.

[Confuzzled]

The X-Men actually have way more character than Sif, the trio, and Janet though. Fucking Janet is the second longest running leader of The Avengers and got replaced by an obscure MC2 character. She without a doubt got screwed over. She is actually worse off than Scott.

She's also the only woman founder of the Avengers (not to mention the one who thought of the name "Avengers") and the only one of the "Original Trinity of Marvel Superheroines" who Marvel had the rights to. And the way she was treated was as if she was interchangeable and just as a motivating factor for her husband. Lol at Scott & co. being in a worse position than Janet.

Sif and Warriors Three are negligible, glorified extras in the Thor movies as well (which is the reason they have been removed completely from Ragnarok and it makes no difference to anyone). Hawkeye got an arc that has nothing to do with his comics counterpart and if Fox had done the same for an X-character then the whining about "So and so is X in name only" would be endless. And let's not even talk about the poorly developed villains and love interests other than Loki and Pepper Potts.

[Divine Spark]

Scott is the longest running leader of the X-Men. And he was basically a punching bag. The makers of the first trilogy clearly hated him. Let's steal his bike. Let's call him a dick for no reason. Let's steal his car now. Oh look, he has bad taste in music. Let's give him off-screen death(f&*k the scheduling conflicts) and then barely mention him. He's way more screwed over than Janet.

That's why I compared Scott to Janet. Original members of their teams and have acted as leaders for a long time. Sure Scott was poorly treated in the original trilogy but we are talking now. He is alive and well. They gave him little origin story and motive for being a hero.

And he doesn't replaced by Ruby Summers.

[Confuzzled]

That's a good point. While Fox has made many mistakes with the X-men movies (Barakapool anyone?), they have shown a greater willingness to take risks and so something different. Marvel/Disney haven't shown that same willingness. To be fair though, they haven't had to in recent years. They've got a formula and it works. However, those formulas don't last forever. There was a time when every action movie had to follow the Die Hard formula to be successful. Eventually, that lost its effectiveness. That may happen with the MCU as well if it doesn't adapt. Fox has shown with Deadpool, X-men First Class, and Logan that it is willing to adapt and change things around. They will gamble if they have to, although sometimes they need to be pushed, as we saw with Deadpool. I think Fox's recent changes in leadership, namely the firing of Tom Rothman (who was responsible for a lot of the decisions that ruined X3 and Wolverine Origins), will help in this effort. Fox is trying to change things up more with TV shows like Legion and grittier movies like Logan. It may not pay off in the short-term, but in the long-term, it can be very effective.

That's the major reason why the pressure put on Fox and DC to be "more like Marvel" kind of bothers me as well. They don't have to adopt the same formula or be as meticulous at ensuring tonal consistency throughout their entire movie universe (how does Deadpool fit tonally with the rest of the XCU anyway?), they just need to have more coherent storytelling (DC) and do a better job at juggling ensembles (Fox).

[SpiderClops]

What romantic relationships X-Men developed better? Scott/Jean/Logan? Logan/Marika? Logan/whoeverthatchickwasinorigins? Rogue/Bobby/Kitty? Because we don't have enough stupid love triangles in this franchise.

Juggernaut and Apocalypse were excellent villains. Phoenix was done justice.

Let's use Magneto in every single team movie. Let's use Stryker in four movies(the plot totally needs him).

Mystique is the greatest mutant ever. And Storm does... something.

But hey, Fox takes risk. Having Wolverine pop-up in every single movie. Making Magneto a prominent character in every single team movie. It's not too much for a guy who keeps betraying X-Men. Giving Deadpool low budget. Giving Logan R-rating(it's not like he's the biggest star in these movies or anything).

[SpiderClops]

That's why I compared Scott to Janet. Original members of their teams and have acted as leaders for a long time. Sure Scott was poorly treated in the original trilogy but we are talking now. He is alive and well. They gave him little origin story and motive for being a hero.

And he doesn't replaced by Ruby Summers.

He should be compared with Captain America. Oh, doesn't look good.

That ain't an origin story. They went for the one of the most cliched motivations ever. And couldn't even fully commit to that.

I'd gladly accept Ruby Summers over Katniss!Mystique. As long as Scott didn't die like a pussy.

[Divine Spark]

He should be compared with Captain America. Oh, doesn't look good.

That ain't an origin story. They went for the one of the most cliched motivations ever. And couldn't fully even commit to that.

I'd gladly accept Ruby Summers over Katniss!Mystique. As long as Scott didn't die like a pussy.

Why? Cap isn't a founding member of the Avengers.

I'll admit it wasn't done right but an effort was attempted.

[SpiderClops]

Why? Cap isn't a founding member of the Avengers.

I'll admit it wasn't done right but an effort was attempted.

And Wolverine wasn't even in the first run of X-Men. But we don't care about that, do we?

They could've spent more time on him, if it wasn't for telling the origins of Charles' baldness, Watching Magneto loose his family again, the Weapon X sequence again, the Chuck & Eric bickering again and J-Law sleepwalking. It's been 16 years, I need more than some half-arsed effort.

[Divine Spark]

And Wolverine wasn't even in the first run of X-Men. But we don't care about that, do we?

They could've spent more time on him, if it wasn't for telling the origins of Charles' baldness, Watching Magneto loose his family again, the Weapon X sequence again, the Chuck & Eric bickering again and J-Law sleepwalking. It's been 16 years, I need more than some half-arsed effort.

Wouldn't say it was half-assed. It got the MCU Quicksilver treatment. Where the scene got cut due to pacing.

[SpiderClops]

Wouldn't say it was half-assed. It got the MCU Quicksilver treatment. Where the scene got cut due to pacing.

It is half assed when they waste time on things that have already been shown more than once.

Scott is as important as MCU Quicksilver now, okay. QS still did more, had more personality and better relationship with Wanda.

[Confuzzled]

And Wolverine wasn't even in the first run of X-Men. But we don't care about that, do we?

Cyclops never broke out in the comics the way Wolverine did, so if someone of the two had to be favored, it makes sense it had to be him. The Avengers were already in a better position than the first two X-Films as 4 characters already had their own solo films leading up to it, so you didn't have to pick one POV character as such to explore the new world. Also, it was James Marsden's scheduling that messed up his role in TLS. And FC and DoFP were set/mostly set in the past which excluded Scott for the most part.

[SpiderClops]

Cyclops never broke out in the comics the way Wolverine did, so if someone of the two had to be favored, it makes sense it had to be him. The Avengers were already in a better position than the first two X-Films as 4 characters already had their own solo films leading up to it, so you didn't have to pick one POV character as such to explore the new world. Also, it was James Marsden's scheduling that messed up his role in TLS. And FC and DoFP were set/mostly set in the past which excluded Scott for the most part.

I know that. I wasn't being sarcastic in my post.

But even when Wolverine was the most popular character, Scott wasn't ignored. He was still and important character.

Fox rushed their movie to spite Singer and WB in TLS case. Don't tell me Fox actually cared about Marsden's character.

DoFP could've easily been set between X2 and TLS, but it wasn't. Giving Singer more excuses. First Class wasn't meant to followed by anything.

[Celestial]

They have their Netflix series.

I'm don't want to be rude to anyone, but why do people feel the need to bash MCU/Disney? "Disney this, Disney that, oh they'll never make a film like this, they'll never allow the R rating" They'll also never butcher characters like Fox. And Reynolds had to fight really really hard to make the movie he wanted. He had to fight for years and years.

One good movie doesn't excuse them for ruining half the characters in previous movies. The X-Men are background characters in their own movies.

I hope Deadpool 2 is good. I hope Logan is great. I want New Mutants to be a success. But please enough with the "Disney'll never do this. Disney can't make a movie like that."

Exactly. The whole Dis-Marvel is for kids and DisMarvel will never make R-rated movies comments are so annoying. I'm not saying you have to like them but saying it's for kids is a weak argument. Fox gets no credit for Deadpool from me and theyou never will.

[vasir12]

This notion that seeming to go around that "the MCU is for the dumb/immature and the XMCU is so smart, you have to be stupid not to appreciate it!" is... um... pretty pretentious. People say what they don't like about a movie and then somehow shows up and tells them "you're wrong! You should actually love this thing!" when this is all just a matter of opinion. What's fact is that, of the three, the XMCU is the least popular so there must be a reason why.

[Divine Spark]

It is half assed when they waste time on things that have already been shown more than once.

Scott is as important as MCU Quicksilver now, okay. QS still did more, had more personality and better relationship with Wanda.

Only if you include deleted scenes. Other than that MCU Quicksilver was bland to the point that no one cared that he died. Including his relationship with Wanda.