Worst Narrative Disasters in a Batman or Batfamily Story Arc?

[Dzetoun]

We spend a lot of time talking about narrative failures, arcs that broke down or miscarried for some reason. What do you think are the worst examples of narrative disasters in Batman or Batfamily titles? By disasters I don't mean just unsatisfactory or mediocre stories, but arcs that created true ongoing problems that persisted for a while, or may still persist. Also, for ground rules let's say we will not discuss arcs or storylines such as Robin Rises or Forever Evil/Grayson that are currently ongoing, and whose ultimate effects have not yet been seen. My list would include:

1) A Death in the Family. The debacle of the telephone poll is infamous, but in truth the arc was poorly plotted and executed throughout. The climax, with the Joker as Iran's ambassador to the United Nations, raised howls of derision even in 1989, and even at that time was regarded by many as an astounding piece of nationalistic jingoism and ethnic insensitivity, if not out and out racism.

2) Blockbuster/War Games. Two arcs, one Nightwing and one Batman, linked at the hip. Both were misconceived and badly presented. Although by different authors, the two frankly poisonous storylines combined to create a toxic sludge that damaged or killed almost every character caught up in it.

3) Under the Red Hood aftermath. This was a powerful story, no doubt, and much more complex than is often remembered, as it, and the character of Jason Todd, involved a great deal more than the Joker stuff that fanfic writers (and, sadly, some professionals) immediately seized on and have repeated ad nauseam for nearly a decade. It placed a whole tangle of difficult and divisive issues on the table that were intellectually interesting and emotionally resonant (perhaps too resonant, in fact). But from from a standpoint of narrative strategy and moving the characters forward that tangle needed to be taken off the table again, and quickly. It has been said that DC had no plan for Jason. In fact, he was supposed to become the killer Nightwing after Dick died in Infinite Crisis. But when the world he was written for failed to appear, it became imperative to move decisively to clear that whole mess up. Instead, D.C. floundered around for years, and Jason's character got ever more entangled in these difficult and divisive issues, and arguably the character has never fully escaped from the trap.

Those would be my top choices. Yours?

[LoneNecromancer]

Well, this wasn't a huge ongoing problem, cos they dropped it quickly enough, but the "fallout" from Death of the Family. A wedge driven in between Bruce and the Batfamily, which was lame enough in itself, but then right afterwards, Damian died, which meant continuing the fallout made the Batfamily seem like massive pricks to treat Bruce that way after his son had been murdered.

[PyroSikTh]

3) Under the Red Hood aftermath. This was a powerful story, no doubt, and much more complex than is often remembered, as it, and the character of Jason Todd, involved a great deal more than the Joker stuff that fanfic writers (and, sadly, some professionals) immediately seized on and have repeated ad nauseam for nearly a decade. It placed a whole tangle of difficult and divisive issues on the table that were intellectually interesting and emotionally resonant (perhaps too resonant, in fact). But from from a standpoint of narrative strategy and moving the characters forward that tangle needed to be taken off the table again, and quickly. It has been said that DC had no plan for Jason. In fact, he was supposed to become the killer Nightwing after Dick died in Infinite Crisis. But when the world he was written for failed to appear, it became imperative to move decisively to clear that whole mess up. Instead, D.C. floundered around for years, and Jason's character got ever more entangled in these difficult and divisive issues, and arguably the character has never fully escaped from the trap.

I disagree on this. The return of Jason Todd has brought about a new dimension of the bat-family that was previously only touched upon by Huntress, but she was burdened with constantly trying to prove herself to Batman, whereas Jason doesn't really care.

Well, this wasn't a huge ongoing problem, cos they dropped it quickly enough, but the "fallout" from Death of the Family. A wedge driven in between Bruce and the Batfamily, which was lame enough in itself, but then right afterwards, Damian died, which meant continuing the fallout made the Batfamily seem like massive pricks to treat Bruce that way after his son had ben murdered.

Actually that's why I'd call it a disaster. Any possible fallout from Death of the Family was instantly diminished because a bigger event stole it's thunder. Individually they're both good events in the bat-family, but any impact of either is diminished because of their timing.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

I loved war games and under the red hood. Some of the first batman stuff I ever read. The story that aired in detective comics after war games though. Something about a circus. Complete and utter dog crap that I did not care for.

[godisawesome]

I'd say War Games is by itself one of the biggest disasters to happen to Batman because of the timing with the controversial attempt at pulling off a "Born Again" on Nightwing, the treatment of Stephanie Brown, and the way that the benefits of the event were largely minuscule compared to its negatives. Stephanie Brown was character assassinated by editorial and then intentionally buried for several years, Orpheus was knocked off with a casualness that seems contemptible, Prometheus and Hush were wasted thanks to their neutered versions still being parts of Azzarello's story, and someone decided that the fall out of Dick leaving Bludhaven at the time left it open to be destroyed, so they scrapped a brief attempt at making the town the headquarters of Robin and Batgirl and destroyed pone of the most colorful fictional cities they had while implicitly killing Tim's stepmother. No one planned for all that stuff to happen, but it did.

And as a narrative component, I'll say the continued attempts to enforce a five year timeline on the Bat-line are a major problem. Especially the attempt by higher ups to make the Robin position an "internship" and dictate short timespans for each incarnation in the position. Higgins, Snyder, Tomasi, and Morrison all just prefer to keep it vague, but Higgins was replaced for some issues so Tom Defalco could write a lame new Lady Shiva to fit the redesign of that character with her killer ponytail, and then Lobdell and co were allowed to butcher Tim's origin and tactically erase all adventures that took place during his adventures as Robin without even the cursory vagueness that Dick (he still had a career as Robin and Nightwing) and Jason (why hello Deacon Blackfyre) got. And at the same time, Damian's a ten year old conceived while Batman is in costume and you know what? Nobody minds that. The five year dictation needs to be banned from mention in the Bat-books. Maybe the other Big Seven all seem ancient and uncool when they're portrayed as older, but Batman's been a surrogate father figure since the 1940s. His fans won't care, and even seem to enjoy an older Batman as the baseline of the character.

[Dzetoun]

I disagree on this. The return of Jason Todd has brought about a new dimension of the bat-family that was previously only touched upon by Huntress, but she was burdened with constantly trying to prove herself to Batman, whereas Jason doesn't really care.

Oh, to be sure. I agree that the return of Jason has been overall a plus. It is not the return or UTRH itself that I think was a disaster, but the floundering around with the character afterwards, as well as a lack of strategic acumen when it came to dealing with the issues he represents.

[godisawesome]

I'd agree with that. After Under the Red Hood, there was pretty much no stand-out story that was ever quite as popular or as good featuring the character. Morrison came close, but lots of people disliked the meta-commentary taking precedence over characterization during that arc (pointing out how Jason's the red headed stepchild is funny, but don't just focus on his place in the mythos, cause that's stupid), and even Winick's last two stabs at the character floundered in their later issues (dinosaur people attack! Do they need backstory? No!)

Arguably, Lobdell's policy of embracing the changes in continuity worked great for RHATO. Few people would argue any one of his arcs or plots could match Under The Hood, but he managed to make the characters appeal and engage the audience.

[Dzetoun]

Actually that's why I'd call it a disaster. Any possible fallout from Death of the Family was instantly diminished because a bigger event stole it's thunder. Individually they're both good events in the bat-family, but any impact of either is diminished because of their timing.

Yes, DOTF certainly had many problems, and I agree that many see it as a disaster. However, I am not sure that we have seen the end of that story, yet. It has been referenced in Eternal, and Snyder is talking of it as Part One of a two part tale.

I'd agree with that. After Under the Red Hood, there was pretty much no stand-out story that was ever quite as popular or as good featuring the character. Morrison came close, but lots of people disliked the meta-commentary taking precedence over characterization during that arc (pointing out how Jason's the red headed stepchild is funny, but don't just focus on his place in the mythos, cause that's stupid), and even Winick's last two stabs at the character floundered in their later issues (dinosaur people attack! Do they need backstory? No!)

UTRH was a good first act that never received a badly needed second act. Having introduced Jason and the issues associated with him, they needed to follow with a Part Two to firmly establish Jason's place in the Bat Universe and to signal how they planned to address the issues he raised. I agree that by the end of his first run Lobdell had finally brought Jason to a workable point. But that point should have been reached in 2006 or 2007, not 2013.

[Punisher007]

War Games/War Crimes was just a disaster across the board.
Nightwing Born Again: The Lame One was also just awful.
Grant Morrison's entire second volume of Batman Incorporated was also really bad. From pointlessly killing off Damian in the most gruesome way possible to the complete ruination of Talia al Ghul's character, to the incredibly lame ending, it was just a trainwreck from start to finish.

[ViewtifulJC]

the one where Leslie Thompkins, longtime beacon of compassion and warmth, let everyone's favorite Stephanie Brown die so she could teach Batman a lesson

also the one where Batman teams up with Joe Chill(THE MAN WHO KILLED HIS PARENTS), using the exact same gun that killed his parents

[Claude]

I don't hate the main story, but editorial confusion in the tie-ins to Death Of Family as to whether they were telling the "Joker Knows Their Secret Identities" story or not was pretty bad.

[Jadeb]

Killing Jack Drake in Identity Crisis pretty much broke Tim as a character, or at least as the character he had been, and he's never really recovered.

[Punisher007]

the one where Leslie Thompkins, longtime beacon of compassion and warmth, let everyone's favorite Stephanie Brown die so she could teach Batman a lesson

also the one where Batman teams up with Joe Chill(THE MAN WHO KILLED HIS PARENTS), using the exact same gun that killed his parents

You mean War Crimes. Yeah that was godawful.

[ViewtifulJC]

Killing Jack Drake in Identity Crisis pretty much broke Tim as a character, or at least as the character he had been, and he's never really recovered.

I really don't even understand that. We finally got a Robin who didn't come from some tragic backstory, and they decided "no no no, that just wont do, bring on the grief!"

course this is the same story where Dr.Light rapes The Elongated Man's wife, so its just filled with tacky angst-ridden ill-fated "mature" attempts at superhero storytelling

[resipsaloquitur]

OK, I'll throw out there: The OMAC Project. Mind you, at the time I enjoyed the story, and it was the only Infinite Crisis buildup story that I opted to read. Looking back, however, it felt weird to have such a heavy sci-fi story be so linked to the Bat-universe and bringing Bat-dickery to a strange new level. Up through the 90s, the Bat-books tended to be, if not divorced from the main DCU, then at least sleeping in separate beds. The Batman in JLA was the same Batman appearing in the Bat-family of books, but despite the fact that Batman could fight white Martians and 5th-dimensional imps in JLA, the main Bat-books still tended to deal with street crime. I even remember one appearance by the Martian Manhunter in Chuck Dixon's Detective Comics which was entirely in his human guise, with only a little "wink wink, nudge nudge, he's a martian."

Anyway, The OMAC Project was very much a Bat-book which resolved a lot of the issues with Sasha Bordeaux that had been going on in Bruce Wayne: Murderer and Fugitive. Still, it established that Batman was ultimately responsible for a modern version of a Jack Kirby creation which became a twisted combination of Agent Smith in The Matrix and the Sentinels from the X-Men. And then the series wasn't really even resolved by Batman, but by a giant fight between the OMACs and the Justice League out in the desert. It felt like the story went off the rails in the last issue or two, and established Batman as a crazier paranoid than he'd already been. Oh, and now it's being moderately rehashed in Futures End. Thanks, Batman.