Star Wars: Rogue One (with spoilers)

[tv horror]

I felt that the character Baze came across as a knock-off Bridge from the X-Men series including the big gun and red scarf and I found it very distracting. Now I did like his character but the two leads went nowhere, as it seemed that maybe their best scenes were left on the cutting room floor.

[ChrisIII]

The films were a little inconsistent on what exactly makes a Jedi-the opening crawl in TPM refers to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon as Jedi Knights, although Obi-Wan is still a Padawan-but in AOTC Padme corrects Sio Bibble on Anakin's rank, stating that he's not a Jedi (Although she may not be up on Jedi customs).

The original Clone Wars canon had Anakin become a Jedi fairly late in the war; whereas starting with the Clone wars movie it seems he was 'promoted' almost right after AOTC.

In ROTS Anakin still refers to Obi-Wan as "master" but that's more of a sign of respect I think, or since Obi-Wan, a member of the council, is a "Master" officially (It's clear Anakin himself is not up to that rank-as it's one of the plot points-despite training Ashoka). Then in ANH the dialogue makes it look like he never actually became a Knight ("A pupil of mine before he became evil" "I was but the learner").

Then there's all them talking about 'completing the training' in ESB while in ROTJ they're just like "No more training, just get Vader OK?"


The "Trials" are also a bit vague, although Obi-Wan seems to have simply passed them by killing (or if count Clone Wars, simply de-legging) Maul.

....and that doesn't even begin the whole Obi-Wan identifying Yoda as his master thing in ESB, when he's Qui-Gon's Padawan in TPM (although it's possible Yoda trained him in a 'class' like that seen in AOTC while Qui-Gon was kind of his field instructer later on).

[Zero Hunter]

I always just read it as Anakin was a full Jedi Knight but never earned the title of Jedi Master like Obi Wan. He just didn't have the skills and focus to be a Master which is shown with how Obi Wan was able to take him out in the end without really having to go all out in their battle on Mustafar. Even Master Yoda would have wiped the floor with Anakin if they had fought. There is just seems to be that much of difference between the power and skill of a Jedi Knight and a true Jedi Master.

[Buried Alien]

I always just read it as Anakin was a full Jedi Knight but never earned the title of Jedi Master like Obi Wan. He just didn't have the skills and focus to be a Master which is shown with how Obi Wan was able to take him out in the end without really having to go all out in their battle on Mustafar. Even Master Yoda would have wiped the floor with Anakin if they had fought. There is just seems to be that much of difference between the power and skill of a Jedi Knight and a true Jedi Master.

I think Anakin had the skill in abundance, but he lacked the wisdom. I believe that it's the wisdom to know what to do with the Force, rather than facility in using it, that defines a true Jedi Master.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Robotman]

I think Anakin had the skill in abundance, but he lacked the wisdom. I believe that it's the wisdom to know what to do with the Force, rather than facility in using it, that defines a true Jedi Master.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'm guessing a Jedi Master can truely control their emotions. Something Anakin always had trouble with.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Tarkin's plan was not as flawed as it seems. The whole point was to show that the Death Star was powerful AND unstoppable. This was the Empire dropping its final cloak of legitimacy and declaring itself as an absolute dicatorship.

The very reason the Emperor did not do this before and continued with the Senate was that he knew that as soon as he disbanded the government and went full evil that the Rebellion would receive a huge recruitment boost. Systems who had hoped to temper the situation through non-violent means now realized they had no choice but to take up arms and fight or capitulate to martial rule. Palpatine staved off full blown insurrection by biding his time, using his status as Emperor to gradually undermine the last vestiges of democracy, whittle away his enemies, and rebuild an army depleted in the long struggle of the Clone Wars.

The reason it all fell apart was the destruction of the Death Star. You can see in this movie very clearly that had the battle station remained operational, many members of the Rebellion would have just given up, seeing their only choices as surrender or annihilation. The destruction of the Death Star meant that people saw they actually had a chance to defeat the Empire, and with the threat of reprisals in the form of planetary destruction off the board many systems flocked to the Rebel flag. Palpatine was now forced to fight a procrastinated conventional war where neither side could achieve an easy military victory and every day meant a stronger and more well equipped Rebel Alliance.

This also, by the way, explains the need for the second Death Star. The Empire lacked the military might to fight stomp out resistance on all the worlds throughout the galaxy in rebellion. It needed an ultimate threat, a nuclear weapon equivalent, in order to crush any thought of organized resistance.

Eehh...I think the destruction of the planet and the death star helped the rebel cause. But from what I remember even Palpatine was shocked by Tarkin's decision.

[Godzilla2099]

I take back anything bad I said about Disney. The Vader Scene at the end was one of the best scenes in Star Wars. A heartbeat away from the ESB "I am your father"

Very happy to see Vader is in good hands.

[Mia]

Not a SW fan and really didn't like TFA, I found it boring and it came across as a re-has of III is it worth seeing in theaters?

[regnak]

Not a SW fan and really didn't like TFA, I found it boring and it came across as a re-has of III is it worth seeing in theaters?

I didn't care for TFA either but I loved Rogue One. It is both the best SW movie since the original trilogy and the one with the most war in Star Wars.

[Master Planner]

Tarkin's plan was not as flawed as it seems. The whole point was to show that the Death Star was powerful AND unstoppable. This was the Empire dropping its final cloak of legitimacy and declaring itself as an absolute dicatorship.

The very reason the Emperor did not do this before and continued with the Senate was that he knew that as soon as he disbanded the government and went full evil that the Rebellion would receive a huge recruitment boost. Systems who had hoped to temper the situation through non-violent means now realized they had no choice but to take up arms and fight or capitulate to martial rule. Palpatine staved off full blown insurrection by biding his time, using his status as Emperor to gradually undermine the last vestiges of democracy, whittle away his enemies, and rebuild an army depleted in the long struggle of the Clone Wars.

The reason it all fell apart was the destruction of the Death Star. You can see in this movie very clearly that had the battle station remained operational, many members of the Rebellion would have just given up, seeing their only choices as surrender or annihilation. The destruction of the Death Star meant that people saw they actually had a chance to defeat the Empire, and with the threat of reprisals in the form of planetary destruction off the board many systems flocked to the Rebel flag. Palpatine was now forced to fight a procrastinated conventional war where neither side could achieve an easy military victory and every day meant a stronger and more well equipped Rebel Alliance.

This also, by the way, explains the need for the second Death Star. The Empire lacked the military might to fight stomp out resistance on all the worlds throughout the galaxy in rebellion. It needed an ultimate threat, a nuclear weapon equivalent, in order to crush any thought of organized resistance.

At the time of Rogue One and A New Hope,Palpatine was ready to destroy the last pieces of a civilian government and go in a full martial law/rule by degree style of power. Death Star would be the key for that,because who would dare following the rebellion or demanding a restriction of the Imperial authority when the authority has a weapon that can destroy planets.So Tarkin's ruthlessness of using Death Star was correct in a way,but the destruction of the first Death Star left Empire in a more damaged state,because the last shreds of legitimacy were gone,more systems and planets saw the Empire for what it is and Rebellion got more recruits.It's no weird that Vader was promoted in Empire Strike Back as the man who had to crack down the leadership of Rebel Alliance and catching Luke as a Force threat.

[Mia]

I didn't care for TFA either but I loved Rogue One. It is both the best SW movie since the original trilogy and the one with the most war in Star Wars.

Great thanks! I'll go see it!

[brettc1]

Eehh...I think the destruction of the planet and the death star helped the rebel cause. But from what I remember even Palpatine was shocked by Tarkin's decision.

If he was it was never shown on screen.

[The Negative Zone]

I've liked all the Star Wars movies, and this is one of my favorite films. A few notes

~Last act felt like "Okay everyone has to die now."
~ C'mon! At least let us have one cast member live. Personally wanted K2 and Chirrut to live as they were my favorites. Hopefully Rogue One gets some acknowledgement in future films or something.
~Would like to point out we just watched the title crawl to a New Hope. Star Wars turned a paragraph of yellow text into a awesome movie!

[WebLurker]

I've liked all the Star Wars movies, and this is one of my favorite films. A few notes

~Last act felt like "Okay everyone has to die now."

There was a precedent for the spies dying. Pretty much every Legends (e.g. non-canon) iteration of the story had them dying. It was even in the New Hope novelization from '76! And, for what it's worth, I though the death scenes were fitting for the characters and well-written.

~ C'mon! At least let us have one cast member live. Personally wanted K2 and Chirrut to live as they were my favorites. Hopefully Rogue One gets some acknowledgement in future films or something.

Agreed on K-2SO, although my second (or first, as it was), was Jyn Erso. (If you liked Chirrut, he will be getting his own chapter book next year, co-starring with Baze. Jyn also gets to star in an unnamed novel next year, too.)

~Would like to point out we just watched the title crawl to a New Hope. Star Wars turned a paragraph of yellow text into a awesome movie!

Do you want to seem then do it again?

[GigiFusc]

Watched it yesterday. Lots of pro's and cons for me:

Pros:
- Good story
- Good characters
- Moves things forward

Cons:
- Awful start - slow pacing, jumping from location to location, introducing new characters at a ridiculous pace. I kid you not, after 10 mins I was sat there with my eyes closed thinking 'God, they've fucked it up AGAIN!'
- Failure to give context to setting for non SW fans

Overall. After a dodgy start for me, I enjoyed it. I wouldn't say it was perfect. I think it could have been a lot better - I don't think it will stay with new viewers in the same way the originals did for many of us. But by heavens this was a huge leap forward from the prequels and from TFA (which for me was a pretty awful concept).

My biggest crit though, is simply that they didn't give anywhere near enough context. I went with a group of 8 made up of 1 male adult proper SW fan(me), one general male adult casual sci fi fan, one female adult who watched SW years ago and likes them but isn't what you would call a knowledgeable fan, one female adult who just about remembers a bit from watching SW but isn't really a big sci fi fan, two 13 year old boys who watched SW a few years ago but aren't ardent fans and 2 girls (11 and 16) who again, have watched the films a year or two ago and aren't core fans but do like them.

Out of that group of stragglers, I was the only one who understood the context and had to explain to the other 7 what the hell was going. Once I did, they got it, but all wished the film had explained it.

So, in that small snapshot, I can only come to the conclusion that unless you know quite a bit about SW lore, you will likely get a bit confused about what's going on. With a bit of context, that confusion just goes away. Schoolboy error IMO. Luckily, the film grows into itself and despite that lack of context, is still very enjoyable in its own right.

I am very happy to have a decent SW film out there after all these years and I'm also happy that JJ Abrams has been shown up for the fraud he is because Rogue one is far, far better than TFA. Well done to all involved.