Can someone explain how the Inhumans are not the bad guys?

[JKtheMac]

Some of them want to move? The ones who don't want to, don't move. Or if they change their mind later they move back to their native countries like Grid did.

They aren't indoctrinated and forced to move to New Attilan.

I would actually feel better about the story if they were indoctrinated. At least that would make sense.

[Iron Fist]

I would actually feel better about the story if they were indoctrinated. At least that would make sense.

Why?

Is the idea that you discover you have super powers and an instant place on a super powered location so hard to understand why people be interested to investigate that new element of their identities? Harry Potter is essentially the same thing.

[JKtheMac]

Oh that, well he deserved it for attacking the royal family and kidnapping an Inhuman from their sovereign nation.

Filling one plot problem with another doesn't help me. As stated I think Marvel play this card to quickly. It can take decades to get recognition at the UN. You cant just get it by being powerful or threatening. Marvel do this all the time and ask us to overlook it. I try to.

[JKtheMac]

Why?

Is the idea that you discover you have super powers and an instant place on a super powered location so hard to understand why people be interested to investigate that new element of their identities? Harry Potter is essentially the same thing.

Harry potter does not go to radical wizard school to learn how to bend the world to his wishes.

[Iron Fist]

Filling one plot problem with another doesn't help me. As stated i think Marvel play this card to quickly. It can take decades to get recognition at the UN. You cant just get it by being powerful or threatening. Marvel do this all the time and ask us to overlook it. I try to.

Attilan has been recognised as it's own nation at the UN for quite a while? Since the Jenkins run or Silent War I believe.

Harry potter does not go to radical wizard school to learn how to bend the world to his wishes.

That's a literal definition of what using magic is tho lol

[JKtheMac]

Attilan has been recognised as it's own nation at the UN for quite a while? Since the Jenkins run or Silent War I believe.

They didn't seem to evoke this. New Attilan was admittedly placed in this position off screen, but when the first time happened does not change my point. Plus think about how the UN and particularly the US has all too quickly described sovereign nations 'rouge states' and you may begin to realise you cant hide behind this and blow stuff up.

That's a literal definition of what using magic is tho lol

Yes I give you that, but I think you know what I mean. It would take either a naive or already radical person to think 'Hey I am an Inhuman now. I think that is so important I will throw my support behind a rogue state'. Like I suggest. I am just about keeping my suspension of disbelief intact, but things like this just strain it way too far.

[Iron Fist]

They didn't seem to evoke this. New Attilan was admittedly placed in this position off screen, but when the first time happened does not change my point. Plus think about how the UN and particularly the US has all too quickly described sovereign nations 'rouge states' and you may begin to realise you cant hide behind this and blow stuff up.

They do it a lot, I think if it keeps possible threats docile then they're happy about it. The UN gave Magneto an island for mutants so he'd stop fucking up other countries with his hissy fits.

Yes I give you that, but I think you know what I mean. It would take either a naive or already radical person to think 'Hey I am an Inhuman now. I think that is so important I will throw my support behind a rogue state'. Like I suggest. I am just about keeping my suspension of disbelief intact, but things like this just strain it way too far.

I quite support the idea of organising the species under a single power structure, it does a lot to reduce risks especially from humans.

The amount of dead mutants killed by angry mobs or rogue science conglomerates would easily have been avoided if they set up the idea of Utopia way earlier. But they've once again abandoned this idea and mutants who don't die from m-pox are being killed by mobs. Brilliant job protecting the species guys.

[JKtheMac]

Well congratulations Iron Fist. You can allow your disbelief to be stretched further than mine. That is just about all this boils down to. I brought up the extremism and outlook to defend the book, but I can only defend it so far.

What I find a little duplicitous in your arguments is you cry foul of editorial when the X-Men are seen to be favoured but when we point out the same can be said about the Inhumans you throw as many in universe justifications as you can into the ring. We all know what is happening here. Even my famously non-cynical approach to reading comics cant quite defend Marvel's position apart from congratulating them for finally engineering the X-men back into the centre of the MU.

[Iron Fist]

Well congratulations Iron Fist. You can allow your disbelief to be stretched further than mine. That is just about all this boils down to. I brought up the extremism and outlook to defend the book, but I can only defend it so far.

What I find a little duplicitous in your arguments is you cry foul of editorial when the X-Men are seen to be favoured but when we point out the same can be said about the Inhumans you throw as many in universe justifications as you can into the ring. We all know what is happening here. Even my famously non-cynical approach to reading comics cant quite defend Marvel's position apart from congratulating them for finally engineering the X-men back into the centre of the MU.

I don't think much that's happened really defies belief. I have issues with the Inhumans being nerfed and logical solutions to problems being abandoned for the more dramatic kind, but this is par for the course in pretty much all events, especially Verses events.

You were saying how hard it is to believe Attilan would be viewed as a nation and i pointed out the MU UN has a history of recognising super powered states.

[DurararaFTW]

The mutants have had an option on the table since day one, take one of the various x-gene cures in the marvel universe and boom, no more m-pox for them. Given all mutants exposed to the mist are now sterile, it's not as if their future generations are losing anything.

The clear difference is that it's the mutant genetics causing this problem (and whatever mutated the terrigen cloud) most people if they found part of their body was pre-defined to cause illness and death they'd remove this part of their body, humans do it all the time with mastectomies and orchiectomies. But the idea mutants should do this is 'obsecene' even though it would save their lives.

The only good argument I've heard against removing their x-gene is in mutants with physical mutations, it may require cosmetic surgery.

For the record, that's not what I meant. We all have to place our suspension of disbelief somewhere. Personally, if you are gonna tell a story about a disease effecting mutants that Beast can't cure because every mutation is different then you can either not acknowledge the cures or have them operate on the same level. Beast was acting like Kavita Rao's cure would turn his snout into a normal mouth and nose, his fluffy cat ears into human ears, his claws into hands and regrow his lost fingers (he didn't have five on every limb anymore).

Nightcrawler would have to get the full Micheal Jackson, Bling!, Archangel and M would have to get their armorlike skin removed, less surgery then removing a carapace. Mercury is in a similiar bunch but given that, while she eventually feels pain if you just cut deep enough, hasn't needed to eat or drink in years probably can't go back. Havok and his body that stores cosmic energy for which he has to wear specialised equipment to deal with even as a mutant would turn into a bomb same with the current Rogue, Surge, Bishop and Shaw. Rockslide, who at this point is just a psionic entity inhabiting a pile of rocks would cease to exist, same with the older Iceman but with water instead of rock, and Psylocke but with a Japanese lady instead of rocks. Old Man Logan, who is in current continuity isn't aging naturally but rather catching up with his chronological age as his healing factor fails should die right away. Ditto Sabretooth. Chamber goes back to the life support he was put on last time he lost his powers, lacking a jaw, throat or lungs.
Unless the "cures" turns them into mutates with Deadpool cartoon physics level regenerative abilities rather then humans it shouldn't be an options for the majority.

[JKtheMac]

I don't think much that's happened really defies belief. I have issues with the Inhumans being nerfed and logical solutions to problems being abandoned for the more dramatic kind, but this is par for the course in pretty much all events, especially Verses events.

You were saying how hard it is to believe Attilan would be viewed as a nation and i pointed out the MU UN has a history of recognising super powered states.

No I was saying I think Marvel do the nation thing too often. They did it with AIM for example. It's comic book logic, and it is just as editorially driven as deciding Emma Frost and Jean Grey can distract Karnak. This whole Inhumans episode has felt very unnatural but I can excuse that. Even support it to a point. But let's not kid ourselves they tied themselves up in knots and now they want to unravel it a bit.

This was not the plan that Fraction had on the table. He was paid a lump sum and sent on his way. This was not the plan Hickman had, he drifted it towards the solution Marvel wanted. This was a bit messy and a bit too illogical. I wasn't that bothered as long as we eventually got the X-Men back in a more central position.

[The Cool Thatguy]

If it's enough for some x-fans ... Ha no.

I mostly meant it will be an end to their species. Even if terrigen is discovered in a few generation it would prove lethal to a population of humans with Inhuman DNA, just like we saw from Charles Soule's run.

Some but not all. All the Inhumans would have to do is what they've always done, selectively expose members to the mists. Problem solved.

The cloud, on the other hands, means no more mutants, by killing them. So yeah, no cloud is the best solution

[DurararaFTW]

They do it a lot, I think if it keeps possible threats docile then they're happy about it. The UN gave Magneto an island for mutants so he'd stop fucking up other countries with his hissy fits.

I quite support the idea of organising the species under a single power structure, it does a lot to reduce risks especially from humans.

The amount of dead mutants killed by angry mobs or rogue science conglomerates would easily have been avoided if they set up the idea of Utopia way earlier. But they've once again abandoned this idea and mutants who don't die from m-pox are being killed by mobs. Brilliant job protecting the species guys.

They didn't abandon it so much as that Obama sactioned an Avenger strike against it that left it sinking into the ocean.

[Iron Fist]

Some but not all. All the Inhumans would have to do is what they've always done, selectively expose members to the mists. Problem solved.

The cloud, on the other hands, means no more mutants, by killing them. So yeah, no cloud is the best solution

Except all the mutants were still sterile, cloud or no cloud.

For the record, that's not what I meant. We all have to place our suspension of disbelief somewhere. Personally, if you are gonna tell a story about a disease effecting mutants that Beast can't cure because every mutation is different then you can either not acknowledge the cures or have them operate on the same level. Beast was acting like Kavita Rao's cure would turn his snout into a normal mouth and nose, his fluffy cat ears into human ears, his claws into hands and regrow his lost fingers (he didn't have five on every limb anymore).

It's possibe. As I say below the only real example we have of no more x-gene is from decimation. either of the two cures could potential reverse mutation entirely but I don't think we've seen either one used so it's hard to say for sure. If we find out they do fully reverse mutation then great, mutant cure for everyone not immune to the

Nightcrawler would have to get the full Micheal Jackson, Bling!, Archangel and M would have to get their armorlike skin removed, less surgery then removing a carapace. Mercury is in a similiar bunch but given that, while she eventually feels pain if you just cut deep enough, hasn't needed to eat or drink in years probably can't go back. Havok and his body that stores cosmic energy for which he has to wear specialised equipment to deal with even as a mutant would turn into a bomb same with the current Rogue, Surge, Bishop and Shaw. Rockslide, who at this point is just a psionic entity inhabiting a pile of rocks would cease to exist, same with the older Iceman but with water instead of rock, and Psylocke but with a Japanese lady instead of rocks. Old Man Logan, who is in current continuity isn't aging naturally but rather catching up with his chronological age as his healing factor fails should die right away. Ditto Sabretooth. Chamber goes back to the life support he was put on last time he lost his powers, lacking a jaw, throat or lungs.
Unless the "cures" turns them into mutates with Deadpool cartoon physics level regenerative abilities rather then humans it shouldn't be an options for the majority.

I'm not sure if physical mutations would even need cosmetic surgery without an x-gene, someone said in decimation that physical mutations within decimated mutants were proving lethal.

They didn't abandon it so much as that Obama sactioned an Avenger strike against it that left it sinking into the ocean.

They certainly didn't reform it.

[JKtheMac]

For the record, that's not what I meant. We all have to place our suspension of disbelief somewhere. Personally, if you are gonna tell a story about a disease effecting mutants that Beast can't cure because every mutation is different then you can either not acknowledge the cures or have them operate on the same level. Beast was acting like Kavita Rao's cure would turn his snout into a normal mouth and nose, his fluffy cat ears into human ears, his claws into hands and regrow his lost fingers (he didn't have five on every limb anymore). <snip>

Nice summary. The point has always been that each cure is not viable and potentially just as fatal for some of our favourite characters.