AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #22.... Spoilers & Discussion.

[PaxHouse]

This latest Tie-In into THE CLONE CONSPIRACY is now released.....and once more Mr. Slott is able to answer certain questions regarding the current situation with the Jackal AKA Ben Reilly & Spider-Man.....

spoilers:

Mostly, this Issue goes into the circumstances as to what occurred afterward when Ben was killed in saving Peter from Norman Osborn's latest plan of vengeance (PETER PARKER: SPIDER-MAN #75. It turns out that Warren has not only resurrected Ben Reilly from his 'remains'; but also kept killing him (27 times) in order to continue his study on the clone's cellular degeneration that the Doctor is trying to fix. And unfortunately, Warren's constant killing of Ben had an unintended consequence of Reilly losing his good memories and eventually breaking free. And in an incredible twist; Ben brought back Warren as a clone himself, with him taking the daily medication to temporary halt the cellular degeneration.

end of spoilers

In addition to the discussion between Peter and Ben spoilers:

is the fact that Ben is offering Peter the chance to bring back his Uncle Ben into the living

end of spoilers

Another unbelieve issue by Mr. Slott.

Any thoughts or comments regarding Issue #22....??

[Bossace]

I was unaware Ben became a genius in genetics to solve the degeneration problem warren couldn't no matter how hard he tried. They just breezed over that with a "oh yea I figured it out" while a man who's worked his whole life with genetics couldn't.

[Aioros22]

Ben at the time managed to create alternatives/improvements on Peter`s webbing as well.

That being said, it came out as expected with one moment of shock or two, mostly in terms of execution. It`s a sort of Dark Side turn without compromising Ben`s character too much since it`s laid out that all the times he was killed and brought back for study did something to his mind. That panel where he had Warren down was the first to catch me off guard. Second was Ben claiming how not being Peter was actually a sign of freedom rather than emprisionement. That`s a nice take for the current storyline but we`ll see how it plays further.

That panel in the wardrobe sure brings memories

[Aioros22]

That being said:

spoilers:

I still think this leaves appearant that Warren may be playing with Ben`s memories and manipulating him thus, including thinking he`s figured out how to solve the degeneration flaw in the process. He`s done it before (Dematteis/Liam Sharp, when it`s revealed how Ben came to be). Ben, for all the appearant embrace of his newfound freedom from Peter`s persona, still claims that the same power of responsability does not let him have all the decision making alone and needs Peter. This may be part or the actual end goal of Warren`s manipulation. I still think Dematteis would be better than PAD for a title that we assume will deal with Ben and the fallout of CC but what if the reason he wasn`t chosen is because they want to play for a bit whether Ben actually changed or not? Keep it in the current office, so to speak

end of spoilers

[Prof. Warren]

Another awesome issue. These tie-ins have been really enjoyable and this one does a great job of explaining Ben's turn while not turning him into a villain. Given the torment he endured, it's not a stretch to see why he usurped the Jackal's mantle. I really love how he turned the tables on Warren, leaving him unable to know which one is the real version. Truly an example of poetic justice.

Peter's openness at the end to hear more about Ben's plans makes sense. Given what he's heard, can he really simply discount the possibility that maybe this is a good idea? Of course not. And now that the door is cracked open, what will happen next? Can't wait to find out.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

There seem to be a few inconsistencies in this issue:

1) The Jackal's transformation in the 90's Clone Saga was genetic, but this issues shows it as a costume.
2) Slott has alluded to the fact that Ben was the Jackal during Spider-Island, but that doesn't seem to mesh with his story here.
3) If Ben didn't kill Miles, how was he able to bring him back as a clone? Did he just clone Miles a bunch of times for the hell of it, while leaving the original to believe that he may be a clone, as well?

[DieHard200904]

There seem to be a few inconsistencies in this issue:

1) The Jackal's transformation in the 90's Clone Saga was genetic, but this issues shows it as a costume.
2) Slott has alluded to the fact that Ben was the Jackal during Spider-Island, but that doesn't seem to mesh with his story here.
3) If Ben didn't kill Miles, how was he able to bring him back as a clone? Did he just clone Miles a bunch of times for the hell of it, while leaving the original to believe that he may be a clone, as well?

Never liked the 1990s Jackal design. Looked like the Joker. Prefer classic suit. If he fooled the original Warren into thinking he's a clone, that sounds like some payback worth watching.

[Ursalink]

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm afraid the Ben Reilly we knew is gone. I believe what Warren did to Ben here has turned him insane. Anyway, something's fishing around here. Who said the Warren appearing here WAS the real Miles Warren? Usually, the Jackal is always in his monster's look. Something's fishy around here. Either that was just another Miles Warren's clone or this Ben's memories are faker than who knows what.

Now that I think of it, I have seen something like this before. This whole thing of killing someone, clone it to kill it again, cloning and killing it over an over is the same thing that end up creating Doomsday, one of DC's most terrible villains and monsters.

[blackspidey2099]

I was unaware Ben became a genius in genetics to solve the degeneration problem warren couldn't no matter how hard he tried. They just breezed over that with a "oh yea I figured it out" while a man who's worked his whole life with genetics couldn't.

Well, Ben is a Clone of Peter who is one of the top 5 smartest in the Marvel Universe. Miles Warren has nowhere near that amount of raw intellect.

[blackspidey2099]

I really loved Ben's quote when he was telling Peter that they could save everyone's Uncle Ben. I think the story characterized both of them perfectly, had visceral action and made me really empathize with Ben. I'm looking forward to what's coming next!

[Aioros22]

There seem to be a few inconsistencies in this issue:

1) The Jackal's transformation in the 90's Clone Saga was genetic, but this issues shows it as a costume.
2) Slott has alluded to the fact that Ben was the Jackal during Spider-Island, but that doesn't seem to mesh with his story here.
3) If Ben didn't kill Miles, how was he able to bring him back as a clone? Did he just clone Miles a bunch of times for the hell of it, while leaving the original to believe that he may be a clone, as well?

Point one seems to be an inconsistant nod yeah but the third point may it well just be Ben being karmic to Warren. It`s very possible he cloned him for the hell of it so Warren goes throught what he did. As we`ve seen, he surely doesn`t even tell him which one is the real one, if that.

Right now there`s some narrative possibilities left in the air:

a) It happened as Ben described. His mind has changed due to the circle of dying and being revived.

b) It`s all part of Warren`s manipulation to torture Ben and again lure Peter in willingly.

c) Being a clear antagonist...it didn`t happen as Ben described. He does kill Warren and clones him and lies to Peter for "the greater good".

Point A and C have him in the antagonist role but in a different shade with the common thread that unlike Peter, Ben will go the extra mile.

[vikramkhore]

ben has peter parker mind so he can be scientist ,why wont?

[Grim Ghost]

Well, Ben is a Clone of Peter who is one of the top 5 smartest in the Marvel Universe. Miles Warren has nowhere near that amount of raw intellect.

Peter Parker is definitely a genius, but I wouldn't even put him in the top 20 greatest minds of the MU much less top 5. There are plenty of guys like Doom, Reed, High Evolutionary, Forge, Hank McCoy, Tony Stark, Maximus, The Fixer, Mad Thinker, etc... that blow Peter away in intelligence.

Remember that Peter often has to go to people like Reed or even Curt Connors for help.

[DieHard200904]

Well, Ben is a Clone of Peter who is one of the top 5 smartest in the Marvel Universe. Miles Warren has nowhere near that amount of raw intellect.

I think Ben's intelligence was tampered with. It is a possibility. Then Warren has some kind of failsafe to prevent Ben from truly killing the true Professor Warren. He let's Ben think that he has won though.

[classicgmer]

So basically the understanding that Peter and Ben came too towards the end of the CS that it didn't matter which one of them was the original was a lie That underrstanding between them i thought was great but i guess Marvel figures throwing away years of character progression for Ben is worth it so they could revert him back to the " i'm. a clone so i'm worthless" status quo again and then in turn use that to make him crazy.


Alrighty then.