Infamous Iron Man 3 - Spoilers

[theoneandonly]

What were the misrepresentations of what happened before and during Secret Wars?

he must be referring to the misportaryal of dooms explaination of his mindset and motives behind secret wars. he gained the power not because he wanted to but there was no other choice and he also does not refer to reeds role in making him repentant and making him acknowledge his deficiencies.

[Grim Ghost]

Wow, I really hate to see Bendis messing around with Triumph and Torment. Funny enough I believe the only guy who has done more damage to Doom is probably Mark Waid.

[Kintor]

And about redempion: Triumph & Torment was about redemption for Cynthia von Doom, freed from Mephisto's clutches and ascended to heaven. Bringing her back and making her a villain undoes the very meaning of that story and the development for Doom as a character.

The concept of redemption is certainly a powerful theme but I don't think that's the whole purpose of the story. Triumph & Torment is really about Doom gaming the system to his advantage. First Doom uses technology and lateral thinking to outsmart his superstitious competitors, inadvertently earning a favour from Doctor Strange in the process. Next Doom tricks Cynthia into rejecting evil by feigning loyalty to Mephisto, at the cost of his mother's love. Lastly, just for good measure, after 'betraying' his word Doom secretly frees Doctor Strange and defeats Mephisto in his own realm. Redemption has nothing to do with it, Doom had a goal in mind and he manipulated every other character in the book to achieve that goal.

Suffice to say, I don’t believe anything seen of Cynthia in Infamous Iron Man contradicts her personality in Triumph & Torment. Certainly, as a character Cynthia is being positioned as an antagonist but that doesn’t necessarily make her a villain. There is nothing inherently evil about fighting the Thing, extra-legal violence is after all the currency of superheros the world over. Without the Fantastic Four to hold his leash the Thing is little better than a rabid dog, Cynthia is arguably helping the common good by keeping him contained. So that if Doom does eventually confront Cynthia over this it will be a matter of moral grey areas rather than Marvel’s typical good vs evil fare.

[Darthkostis]

@Darthkosis Peter doesn't have the powers of a god. Also, the myths had the gods falling for mortals all the time.

He can lift tons. TONS! He can swing from skyscraper and hold his own against Phoenix Avatars. He can climb surfaces and has a spider-sense that alerts him when danger is nearby. He also has a mystical connection to the spider-totem. Those sound pretty "godly" to me. Don't get to hang up on the similes and metaphors. And besides, like I said, it's my personal opinion. I don't like the average joe/gal x superperson pairings. I just find the Super x Super pairings much better...

[Haquim]

The concept of redemption is certainly a powerful theme but I don't think that's the whole purpose of the story. Triumph & Torment is really about Doom gaming the system to his advantage. First Doom uses technology and lateral thinking to outsmart his superstitious competitors, inadvertently earning a favour from Doctor Strange in the process. Next Doom tricks Cynthia into rejecting evil by feigning loyalty to Mephisto, at the cost of his mother's love. Lastly, just for good measure, after 'betraying' his word Doom secretly frees Doctor Strange and defeats Mephisto in his own realm. Redemption has nothing to do with it, Doom had a goal in mind and he manipulated every other character in the book to achieve that goal.

Suffice to say, I don’t believe anything seen of Cynthia in Infamous Iron Man contradicts her personality in Triumph & Torment. Certainly, as a character Cynthia is being positioned as an antagonist but that doesn’t necessarily make her a villain. There is nothing inherently evil about fighting the Thing, extra-legal violence is after all the currency of superheros the world over. Without the Fantastic Four to hold his leash the Thing is little better than a rabid dog, Cynthia is arguably helping the common good by keeping him contained. So that if Doom does eventually confront Cynthia over this it will be a matter of moral grey areas rather than Marvel’s typical good vs evil fare.

Yet Cynthia finds redemption in the end and Victor finds a measure of peace for it. As for her skinning Ben alive there's no way that's anything but an evil action from a "dark witch". Ben, as penned by Bendis is action as an unlikable moron but he doesn't deserve that kind of punishment.

[The Whovian]

Like everyone else, I hate that Bendis undid Triumph and Torment. That was a majestic book and story.

[jackolover]

he must be referring to the misportaryal of dooms explaination of his mindset and motives behind secret wars. he gained the power not because he wanted to but there was no other choice and he also does not refer to reeds role in making him repentant and making him acknowledge his deficiencies.

Thanks, theone. I may have to get that, to see the context. Do you think Doom is deluding himself here?

[jackolover]

According to Bendis during Secret Wars Doom gained the power of "god" because he coveted it. It's not what happened though. He took the power of the beyonders because no one else wanted it (Strange refused) and it was the only way to save the multiverse from complete annihilation (also note that it took Doom a few millennia to gather the resources needed to have a chance gainst the beyonders, making himself into a god channelling the faith of his own worshippers).
Benis also gives a very simplistic explanation about SW finale: his Doom wants to do good now because he found out absolute power wasn't what he really wanted, Hickman finale hints to something deeper though, someone who found redemption after along and hard journey.

And about redempion: Triumph & Torment was about redemption for Cynthia von Doom, freed from Mephisto's clutches and ascended to heaven. Bringing her back and making her a villain undoes the very meaning of that story and the development for Doom as a character.

Thanks Haquim. Seems like Dooms interpretation is more honest to himself. If Strange decided to take the Beyonder power, I wonder what Doom would have done? Also, if it was God Strange, what would Stephen have done in Dooms place, if he had no choice? Personally, I can't believe the Hickman version because who believes Doom would leave power to Strange? I don't.

[Kintor]

Yet Cynthia finds redemption in the end and Victor finds a measure of peace for it. As for her skinning Ben alive there's no way that's anything but an evil action from a "dark witch". Ben, as penned by Bendis is action as an unlikable moron but he doesn't deserve that kind of punishment.

As I see it Cynthia didn't so much find redemption but rather a loophole to escape her torture and imprisonment at the hands of Mephisto. Redemption is a more personal matter, it can't be awarded by a mystic power or conferred by popular acclaim, it's a measure of one's achievements in response to failure. Cynthia hasn't done anything of note since escaping, as being dead does tend to limit anyone's capacity for action. Meaning that Cynthia's return to the mortal coil might be her own chance at personal redemption, if indeed redemption is what she really seeks.

As for this apparent punishment of the Thing, it remains to be seen what really happened in this incident. After all, just like its real word counterpart, magic in the Marvel universe relies heavily on illusions and misdirection. For all we know the Thing only believes his body is falling apart, when physically he remains uninjured. The recently concluded mini-series Britannia by Valiant Comics does something similar; many times the protagonist is seemingly disfigured by druids and cultists, only to be revealed unharmed in later panels. The same can be true of the Thing here, when Cynthia's attack could be psychological in nature.

[Iron Maiden]

Like everyone else, I hate that Bendis undid Triumph and Torment. That was a majestic book and story.

Yes, so true. It has remained pretty much untouched over the years. I'm not very confident that what Bendis is doing will enhance the story but tear it done. IMO have his mother behave in a sinister manner goes against the lesson she learned dealing with dark powers like Mephisto gave her and their consequences. She ended up killing a whole village of children unwittingly and not knowing that was exactly the outcome Mephisto wanted.

[DeeCee]

A week late, but does anyone know who might remember the events of Secret Wars? I literally dropped all books besides the Inhumans series so I'm not sure if it was mentioned at all in other books. Other than Doctor Doom, I assume OML, but Doom made it sound like there were more.

[Iron Maiden]

A week late, but does anyone know who might remember the events of Secret Wars? I literally dropped all books besides the Inhumans series so I'm not sure if it was mentioned at all in other books. Other than Doctor Doom, I assume OML, but Doom made it sound like there were more.

I've not seen any others mentioned but then I don't get a huge amount of titles every month. Reed, Sue and the Future Foundation are still out there somewhere but I expect we won't be seeing their return to Earth anytime soon. Tony and Steve died just before or during the last incursion and so did Ben and Johnny. I think Miles Morales does remember or at least I think it was implied from the conclusion of Secret Wars. Maybe Peter also?

[Haquim]

A week late, but does anyone know who might remember the events of Secret Wars? I literally dropped all books besides the Inhumans series so I'm not sure if it was mentioned at all in other books. Other than Doctor Doom, I assume OML, but Doom made it sound like there were more.

Namor and the members of the Squadron Supreme do (or at least they remember what happened before Secret Wars). The Ultimates know something happened that started a new iteration of the multiverse.

[Iron Maiden]

That's right, I forgot about the Squadron Supreme. How about Thanos? I know Corvious Glave was in the first issue and I believe he remembers. But I forgot to get the second of the Thanos title. Does Thanos remember getting deboned by God Emperor Doom?

[Haquim]

That's right, I forgot about the Squadron Supreme. How about Thanos? I know Corvious Glave was in the first issue and I believe he remembers. But I forgot to get the second of the Thanos title. Does Thanos remember getting deboned by God Emperor Doom?

I'm not sure about that. He was brought back in Ultimates when he was literally out of the multiversal structure. So it's possible he remembers. He's Thanos after all.
Other bad guys who remember SW are certainly the Maker and the Maestro (probably)..