Why didn't Carol ever become as powerful as Mar-Vell??

[GodThor]

Thought this would be a fun bump given the fact she's stated to not just be one of the most powerful MCU characters but probably the most powerful MCU hero.

Anyone think this might have any possible impact on her stories?

I don't think so.

why would it be???

[DragonsChi]

I honestly can't see Carol doing this ever since Time Runs out and that Carol/Hulk scene.

Attachment 61790

Also look how he handles Classic Drax
Attachment 61791

Thanos for crying out loud
Attachment 61792

Scans make Mar-Vell come off Thor/Hulk tier which I see Carol with Iron Man/Namor/Wonderman

I have read all of Mar-vell's comics. I very much prefer him to Carol as Captain Marvel. However, when Marv fought he used his Cosmic Awareness to help guide him on what would be the most useful strike against an opponent. Thereby allowing him to take on foes that were much out of his weight class. That's mostly what your seeing in the scans above.

Which is why it really depends on how you view power. Marv could know what you were going to do before you do it, while at the same time know exactly how to hit you for maxim damage. A big strategy for Marv was "hit and run" tactics to wear more powerful foes out.

It was a lot of fun to read but in saying all of that Carol's ability to absorb energy is what puts her a head of Marv in terms of raw power. Since absorbing energy increases all of her stats, she would in return be stronger, faster, and have more fire power then Marv could ever have. Her binary form could absorb energy from actual stars and then fire that energy back at you. She already has a base strength level of 75-80 tons and could move at super speeds, her binary powers just amp her up to cosmic levels.

Again, I much prefer Marv to Carol, especially recently, but Marv strength wise caped out around 60 tons before he died.Which is still a feat for him since he started out as a character who was weaker than Spider-Man. The Negbands did give him some form of invulnerability or I should say really enhanced durability but still not on the level of Carol in pure binary mode. In terms of raw power Carol for sure has him beat. However, Marv's cosmic awareness is what makes him dangerous especially when it is combined with his other abilities.

[MadFacedKid]

I have read all of Mar-vell's comics. I very much prefer him to Carol as Captain Marvel. However, when Marv fought he used his Cosmic Awareness to help guide him on what would be the most useful strike against an opponent. Thereby allowing him to take on foes that were much out of his weight class. That's mostly what your seeing in the scans above.

Which is why it really depends on how you view power. Marv could know what you were going to do before you do it, while at the same time know exactly how to hit you for maxim damage. A big strategy for Marv was "hit and run" tactics to wear more powerful foes out.

It was a lot of fun to read but in saying all of that Carol's ability to absorb energy is what puts her a head of Marv in terms of raw power. Since absorbing energy increases all of her stats, she would in return be stronger, faster, and have more fire power then Marv could ever have. Her binary form could absorb energy from actual stars and then fire that energy back at you. She already has a base strength level of 75-80 tons and could move at super speeds, her binary powers just amp her up to cosmic levels.

Again, I much prefer Marv to Carol, especially recently, but Marv strength wise caped out around 60 tons before he died.Which is still a feat for him since he started out as a character who was weaker than Spider-Man. The Negbands did give him some form of invulnerability or I should say really enhanced durability but still not on the level of Carol in pure binary mode. In terms of raw power Carol for sure has him beat. However, Marv's cosmic awareness is what makes him dangerous especially when it is combined with his other abilities.

Honestly sounds iffy to me, not calling it wrong but how does knowing how to punch and where to punch help you against characters like Thanos, Hulk and Thor. Especially when your throwing face shots, chest shots and grappling with some of those powerhouses.

I'm not suggesting Carol doesn't have better strength feats, sure she does but in terms of who Mar-Vell could fight compared to Carol he comes off as being in a higher ballpark. Making Carol not really live up to the legacy.

I don't think so.

why would it be???

Alot of the MCU stuff has correlated with the film's Ironman's boost in prominence his personality shift. Strange's personality shift, his depowerement for awhile to likely match the movies.

On top of the fact Carol's book is typically directionless or doesn't sell that great. So with the success of her movie it's pretty likely they'll follow after the film's success. All speculation ofcourse. But why would they introduce her as something on film and not showcase her as epic in the books

[kilderkin]

I honestly can't see Carol doing this ever since Time Runs out and that Carol/Hulk scene.

Attachment 61790

Also look how he handles Classic Drax
Attachment 61791

Thanos for crying out loud
Attachment 61792

Scans make Mar-Vell come off Thor/Hulk tier which I see Carol with Iron Man/Namor/Wonderman

point accepted

didn't know he'd done that

Always felt he was wonderman level myself

At binary level she competes, but not without that boost I feel

Civil war 2 fight didn't impress me to be honest

[GodThor]

On top of the fact Carol's book is typically directionless or doesn't sell that great. So with the success of her movie it's pretty likely they'll follow after the film's success. All speculation ofcourse. But why would they introduce her as something on film and not showcase her as epic in the books

if we are talking about her powerl level in MCU, she definitely won't be stronger than Thor and Hulk in the comics.

she will need some major boost.

[DragonsChi]

Honestly sounds iffy to me, not calling it wrong but how does knowing how to punch and where to punch help you against characters like Thanos, Hulk and Thor. Especially when your throwing face shots, chest shots and grappling with some of those powerhouses.

I'm not suggesting Carol doesn't have better strength feats, sure she does but in terms of who Mar-Vell could fight compared to Carol he comes off as being in a higher ballpark. Making Carol not really live up to the legacy.

Marv used a combination of his powers, Kree military training, and his Cosmic Awareness in battle. In most of fights he did more bobbing an weaving then actually being hit. When he did get hit the Negband, his own natural resistance ,and again his Cosmic Awareness lessened the damage. How with the Cosmic Awareness? Well it was written to say that his body would move in ways to make the initial blow connect with the least amount of damage. Sorta like how Longshot and Domino do it with their Luck Powers but different because he is said to instinctively know.

How did he defeat foes by knowing where to punch? Similar to how Karnak does it but Marv arguably does it a heck of a lot better. Since his Cosmic Awareness is comparable to low level omniscience.(if it's even possible to have low and omniscience in the same category) Marv could detect the weak points in his foes, combined with his powers and military training it put a upper mid tier character in cosmic range. If Marv ever lost His Cosmic Awareness and/or forgot his military training he would not be able to hang with cats like Thor or Thanos. Because knowing and doing are two different things entirely.


Man I really wish Marvel would bring back Marv already. He truly was one of the unappreciated greats.


Edit: Also note in the panel that you posted with Thanos Mar-vell thinks to himself that it felt as if he broke all the fingers in his hands when he hit him but he must keep going. That is an example that his strength is not on par or even really that close to Thanos.

[Panic]

I've avoided this thread until now because I don't think much good comes from comparing characters in this way, it just makes things adversarial. However, since this thread refuses to die, there are a few points that I want to make:

1)The OP was talking about Carol's power in her time as Ms Marvel: "I'm talking about Carol as Ms. Marvel not any Binary upgrade which didn't really involve Mar-Vell." The OP did make that clear, but people do seem to be ignoring it and just looking at the title.

2)

I honestly can't see Carol doing this ever since Time Runs out and that Carol/Hulk scene.

Attachment 61790

Also look how he handles Classic Drax
Attachment 61791

Thanos for crying out loud
Attachment 61792

Scans make Mar-Vell come off Thor/Hulk tier which I see Carol with Iron Man/Namor/Wonderman

As a big fan of Mar-Vell, but also as someone who believes in playing fair and honest, these scans are misleading:

The Mar-Vell vs Hulk scan cuts off right before the Hulk recovers and slaps Mar-Vell down. The comic establishes that Mar-Vell is not in the Hulk's league when it comes to raw strength, and his greatest blows only temporarily stagger the Hulk.

The Mar-Vell vs Drax scan isn't so misleading, but following pages reveal the near indestructible Drax is unhurt and far from defeated. His battle against Drax in Captain Marvel #58 is a much more solid showing, with Mar-Vell and Drax shown as well-matched when it comes to energy projection, where they appear stalemated.

The Mar-Vell vs Thanos page again cuts off before Mar-Vell is caught and beaten down by Thanos. Starlin was very deliberate in his stressing speed and knowledge in Mar-Vell's power upgrade rather than brute strength.

The most raw power Mar-Vell ever showed in his own magazine was #57, when he was unable to stop absorbing energy from the sun, driving him berserk and putting him in conflict with Thor. Mar-Vell actually increases in size by the end of the issue, becoming somewhere between twenty to thirty feet in height and glowing with energy. He was arguably Thor-tier at that point, though he was also totally nuts and a ticking time bomb of cosmic energy which threatened to destroy the world. So it had its ups and downs. Though Mar-Vell did use his energy absorption powers in other stories, he never drew on that power-level again, and probably couldn't do so safely.

Way back when he was in his green suit, pre-Nega-Bands, he was granted a whole suite of powers including teleportation and illusion projection. But no-one remembers that because the stories were dreadful crap.

3)

Carol was on par with Wonder Man and Vision in her initial Avenger run and probably with Blue Marvel and America Chavez these days and probably surpasses Mar-Vell.

Nope, not as I remember it. She was definitely shown inferior in strength to Wonder Man in the issue where the team fights a group of element-beings in Russia - Ms Marvel attacks Vanadium head-on, only to bounce off him harmlessly ("By the Kree! He took my strongest blow without batting an eyelash!"), whilst Wonder Man simply flies straight through him, shattering him to fragments.

4) Most writers for Mar-Vell didn't understand his powers, got confused, and added powers at random. Even Starlin didn't have a solid grasp on where Mar-Vell's photon power came from.

5)Ms Marvel's powers, back in her pre-Binary days, were somehow based on Mar-Vell's Nega-Band power-set but before he got various boosts. She shouldn't have been quite as fast or as strong as he became in the Starlin era, but as no-one understood his powers in the first place, I doubt the writers understood Carol's either.

[Sighphi]

Carol doesnt have the nega bands.

[Phoenixx9]

Carol was also shown to be way weaker than Wonder Man and Thor in an Avengers issue, where an electronic barbell was set for Thor strength. While Carol could barely budge it, which she noted, WM not only lifted it off the ground, but hoisted it to ear level, before Ironman turned it off.

[davew128]

Carol was also shown to be way weaker than Wonder Man and Thor in an Avengers issue, where an electronic barbell was set for Thor strength. While Carol could barely budge it, which she noted, WM not only lifted it off the ground, but hoisted it to ear level, before Ironman turned it off.

Let's not forget though, this was in her first incarnation, before losing her powers, being experimented on by the Brood, and getting a boost as Warbird and Binary. I don't think she could lift it up all the way now, but she could definitely move it.

[Panic]

Let's not forget though, this was in her first incarnation, before losing her powers, being experimented on by the Brood, and getting a boost as Warbird and Binary. I don't think she could lift it up all the way now, but she could definitely move it.

The OP: "I'm talking about Carol as Ms. Marvel not any Binary upgrade which didn't really involve Mar-Vell."

[MadFacedKid]

I've avoided this thread until now because I don't think much good comes from comparing characters in this way, it just makes things adversarial. However, since this thread refuses to die, there are a few points that I want to make:

1)The OP was talking about Carol's power in her time as Ms Marvel: "I'm talking about Carol as Ms. Marvel not any Binary upgrade which didn't really involve Mar-Vell." The OP did make that clear, but people do seem to be ignoring it and just looking at the title.

2)

As a big fan of Mar-Vell, but also as someone who believes in playing fair and honest, these scans are misleading:

The Mar-Vell vs Hulk scan cuts off right before the Hulk recovers and slaps Mar-Vell down. The comic establishes that Mar-Vell is not in the Hulk's league when it comes to raw strength, and his greatest blows only temporarily stagger the Hulk.

The Mar-Vell vs Drax scan isn't so misleading, but following pages reveal the near indestructible Drax is unhurt and far from defeated. His battle against Drax in Captain Marvel #58 is a much more solid showing, with Mar-Vell and Drax shown as well-matched when it comes to energy projection, where they appear stalemated.

The Mar-Vell vs Thanos page again cuts off before Mar-Vell is caught and beaten down by Thanos. Starlin was very deliberate in his stressing speed and knowledge in Mar-Vell's power upgrade rather than brute strength.

The most raw power Mar-Vell ever showed in his own magazine was #57, when he was unable to stop absorbing energy from the sun, driving him berserk and putting him in conflict with Thor. Mar-Vell actually increases in size by the end of the issue, becoming somewhere between twenty to thirty feet in height and glowing with energy. He was arguably Thor-tier at that point, though he was also totally nuts and a ticking time bomb of cosmic energy which threatened to destroy the world. So it had its ups and downs. Though Mar-Vell did use his energy absorption powers in other stories, he never drew on that power-level again, and probably couldn't do so safely.

Way back when he was in his green suit, pre-Nega-Bands, he was granted a whole suite of powers including teleportation and illusion projection. But no-one remembers that because the stories were dreadful crap.

3)

Nope, not as I remember it. She was definitely shown inferior in strength to Wonder Man in the issue where the team fights a group of element-beings in Russia - Ms Marvel attacks Vanadium head-on, only to bounce off him harmlessly ("By the Kree! He took my strongest blow without batting an eyelash!"), whilst Wonder Man simply flies straight through him, shattering him to fragments.

4) Most writers for Mar-Vell didn't understand his powers, got confused, and added powers at random. Even Starlin didn't have a solid grasp on where Mar-Vell's photon power came from.

5)Ms Marvel's powers, back in her pre-Binary days, were somehow based on Mar-Vell's Nega-Band power-set but before he got various boosts. She shouldn't have been quite as fast or as strong as he became in the Starlin era, but as no-one understood his powers in the first place, I doubt the writers understood Carol's either.

Appreciate you clearing all this up for me.

[DragonsChi]

....Whoops I was one of the people who just read the title and a couple of post above the last and then responded. Lessoned learned there.


Yeah, Ms. Marvel preBinary was weaker than Mar-vell. Most of the reason's why have already been hit on so I won't go over them again.

[MadFacedKid]

if we are talking about her powerl level in MCU, she definitely won't be stronger than Thor and Hulk in the comics.

she will need some major boost.

I don't want any Marvel Hero to be stronger than Hulk his whole motto is strongest one there is. It would be like Superman or GK being faster than Flash. I wouldn't mind Carol being a challenge for Hulk though in the same capacity Thor is. Though I agree she would need some explained boost.

[GodThor]

I don't want any Marvel Hero to be stronger than Hulk his whole motto is strongest one there is. It would be like Superman or GK being faster than Flash. I wouldn't mind Carol being a challenge for Hulk though in the same capacity Thor is. Though I agree she would need some explained boost.

Thor and Hulk are kinda weak tbh.

CM will basically be female version of Superman in MCU.