Controversial Wonderverse Opinions

[Agent Z]

The clay origin should be reinstated, and any writer trying to include a man in Diana's conception or childhood should be permanently barred from writing the character. (I'm cool with Hermes gifting speed and flight.)

Having Steve Trevor and Etta Candy in military, security, or espionage organisations lessens the opportunity to use them as characters in the modern day. They can have a background there, but should be free from any form of military chain of command in continuity stories.

Zeus should be developed into, if not an opponent, then a very irksome and problematic ally due to his entrenched misogyny. (In fact, all the gods and goddesses should be looked at critically by Diana.)

A Jason-like character, if needed (which I'm not sure it is) should be developed based on the male Olympians, not by intruding into Diana's backstory.

Gorillas and Ferdinand are silly.

How so exactly?

[WonderScott]

The clay origin should be reinstated, and any writer trying to include a man in Diana's conception or childhood should be permanently barred from writing the character. (I'm cool with Hermes gifting speed and flight.)

Having Steve Trevor and Etta Candy in military, security, or espionage organisations lessens the opportunity to use them as characters in the modern day. They can have a background there, but should be free from any form of military chain of command in continuity stories.

Zeus should be developed into, if not an opponent, then a very irksome and problematic ally due to his entrenched misogyny. (In fact, all the gods and goddesses should be looked at critically by Diana.)

A Jason-like character, if needed (which I'm not sure it is) should be developed based on the male Olympians, not by intruding into Diana's backstory.

Gorillas and Ferdinand are silly.

I’m with you every step of the way, except perhaps Steve and Etta being a part of ARGUS (which I want the Wonder corner of the DCU to “own” and develop) and that there might be room and place for Ferdinand...as other alien knock around places like Metropolis.

[kjn]

One, and perhaps most importantly, having them effectively as special ops people in today's environment carries with it lots of ethical issues. It also ties Steve Trevor into a specific form of masculinity, that I view as highly destructive.

Two, it means they are traveling around the world under the orders of someone else, or they are high-up people who aren't supposed to be in the field at all but send underlings around, and ask Diana for help whenever things gets too hot.

Having Steve in the army during a large hot war that could be viewed as just (as in Marston's run or in the movie) works entirely different from having him in the military during a time when the USA is constantly invading and interfering in other countries with little or no cause.

[Agent Z]

One, and perhaps most importantly, having them effectively as special ops people in today's environment carries with it lots of ethical issues. It also ties Steve Trevor into a specific form of masculinity, that I view as highly destructive.

Two, it means they are traveling around the world under the orders of someone else, or they are high-up people who aren't supposed to be in the field at all but send underlings around, and ask Diana for help whenever things gets too hot.

Having Steve in the army during a large hot war that could be viewed as just (as in Marston's run or in the movie) works entirely different from having him in the military during a time when the USA is constantly invading and interfering in other countries with little or no cause.

What if Steve and Etta were depicted as being more examples of what the military should be rather than what it is?

[The Dying Detective]

One, and perhaps most importantly, having them effectively as special ops people in today's environment carries with it lots of ethical issues. It also ties Steve Trevor into a specific form of masculinity, that I view as highly destructive.

Two, it means they are traveling around the world under the orders of someone else, or they are high-up people who aren't supposed to be in the field at all but send underlings around, and ask Diana for help whenever things gets too hot.

Having Steve in the army during a large hot war that could be viewed as just (as in Marston's run or in the movie) works entirely different from having him in the military during a time when the USA is constantly invading and interfering in other countries with little or no cause.

Honestly why not play into those issues more? Because unlike Lois Lane and Catwoman Steve never had any sort of problems that were independent of his relationship with Diana. Because that's all people tend to centre on with some exceptions like the Chris Pine Steve Trevor and to a certain extent the James Robinson Steve Trevor. It would actually make Steve and Etta a little more interesting if they can stand more on their own merits. Catwoman and Lois were allowed their own agency and allowing them to shine as protagonists of their own titles heck even Alfred Pennyworth and Jimmy Olsen had their own agency too that allowed them to shine on their own merits. I know Alfred never starred in a title of his own but he's such a strong character that he probably could have his own agency though he has been given his own agency even when he remains a supporting character. What I am basically saying is why not use such a thing it can be a source of a lot spy/political thriller stories that can give Steve, Etta, and the Oddfellows a chance to be treated more like people. Which doesn't happen often. After all who wouldn't want them to try and outwit the Wall?

[kjn]

What if Steve and Etta were depicted as being more examples of what the military should be rather than what it is?

How would you handle them under such a setup?

Honestly why not play into those issues more? Because unlike Lois Lane and Catwoman Steve never had any sort of problems that were independent of his relationship with Diana. Because that's all people tend to centre on with some exceptions like the Chris Pine Steve Trevor and to a certain extent the James Robinson Steve Trevor. It would actually make Steve and Etta a little more interesting if they can stand more on their own merits. Catwoman and Lois were allowed their own agency and allowing them to shine as protagonists of their own titles heck even Alfred Pennyworth and Jimmy Olsen had their own agency too that allowed them to shine on their own merits. I know Alfred never starred in a title of his own but he's such a strong character that he probably could have his own agency though he has been given his own agency even when he remains a supporting character.

I'm all for Steve and Etta having their own lifes, agency, issues, and problems that are separate from their relation to Diana. Here, I believe them being part of a military structure blocks the writers from developing these.

I had outlined my idea for a daring humanitarian pilot with diplomatic ties Steve Trevor in some of the other threads; he'd basically bring together elements of classic Steve Trevor and Trevor Barnes. I believe such a character would be a better match for Diana in the world of today, be a character that could interact with Diana in the field based on mutual personal need, and give plenty of scope for adventures in exotic places.

[The Dying Detective]

I'm all for Steve and Etta having their own lifes, agency, issues, and problems that are separate from their relation to Diana. Here, I believe them being part of a military structure blocks the writers from developing these.

I had outlined my idea for a daring humanitarian pilot with diplomatic ties Steve Trevor in some of the other threads; he'd basically bring together elements of classic Steve Trevor and Trevor Barnes. I believe such a character would be a better match for Diana in the world of today, be a character that could interact with Diana in the field based on mutual personal need, and give plenty of scope for adventures in exotic places.

Well that doesn't sound too bad though how do you figure that being military personnel gets in the way of giving Steve and Etta their own agency? Even the Suicide Squad have a life outside of serving Amanda Waller.

[Agent Z]

How would you handle them under such a setup?

I guess one way is I'd make it that's why they're liasons to Diana as Diana knows they will at least try to balance ethics with duty. Maybe even make them outcasts of sorts because of it. In Fringe, one of the protagonists, Olivia Dunham, was considered a bit of a pariah early on because she was responsible for the prosecution of a male general who had sexually assaulted female soldiers. Maybe Steve or Etta could have a similar incedent in their past where they took action against a corrupt or unethical higher up and were punished in some way for it.

[The Dying Detective]

I guess one way is I'd make it that's why they're liasons to Diana as Diana knows they will at least try to balance ethics with duty. Maybe even make them outcasts of sorts because of it. In Fringe, one of the protagonists, Olivia Dunham, was considered a bit of a pariah early on because she was responsible for the prosecution of a male general who had sexually assaulted female soldiers. Maybe Steve or Etta could have a similar incedent in their past where they took action against a corrupt or unethical higher up and were punished in some way for it.

That's already an idea that will give Steve and Etta more dimension than any past writer save for Geoff Johns and Patty Jenkin's writing of them.

[kjn]

Well that doesn't sound too bad though how do you figure that being military personnel gets in the way of giving Steve and Etta their own agency? Even the Suicide Squad have a life outside of serving Amanda Waller.

Look at the stories made. If Steve is in an exotic place, it's because he's been ordered to go there - that's the simplest explanation for the writer. Why does Diana need his help? Because she needs someone to liaise with ARGUS. Why does he need Diana's help? Because he needs muscle, or his superiors told him to.

Sure, you can give other reasons, but there is a simple answer dangling right before the writers all the time. And they're taking it nearly every time.

By cutting the ties to the military, the writers will have to think about what Steve (or Etta) is doing there, and why they need Diana (or Diana needs them). That will hopefully make for better and more varied stories.

[The Dying Detective]

Look at the stories made. If Steve is in an exotic place, it's because he's been ordered to go there - that's the simplest explanation for the writer. Why does Diana need his help? Because she needs someone to liaise with ARGUS. Why does he need Diana's help? Because he needs muscle, or his superiors told him to.

Sure, you can give other reasons, but there is a simple answer dangling right before the writers all the time. And they're taking it nearly every time.

By cutting the ties to the military, the writers will have to think about what Steve (or Etta) is doing there, and why they need Diana (or Diana needs them). That will hopefully make for better and more varied stories.

Okay I see your point but just because they leave the military doesn't mean it won't stop any writer from just putting them back into the military if they want to that is. But as Agent Z illustrated they can just work as the more rebellious members of the military while working to stay one step ahead of their corrupt bosses.

[marhawkman]

Look at the stories made. If Steve is in an exotic place, it's because he's been ordered to go there - that's the simplest explanation for the writer. Why does Diana need his help? Because she needs someone to liaise with ARGUS. Why does he need Diana's help? Because he needs muscle, or his superiors told him to.

Sure, you can give other reasons, but there is a simple answer dangling right before the writers all the time. And they're taking it nearly every time.

By cutting the ties to the military, the writers will have to think about what Steve (or Etta) is doing there, and why they need Diana (or Diana needs them). That will hopefully make for better and more varied stories.

Or, do stories with their daily life. Military people don't JUST do military stuff. Look up the TV show "Major Dad" to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

[Stanlos]

The clay origin should be reinstated, and any writer trying to include a man in Diana's conception or childhood should be permanently barred from writing the character. (I'm cool with Hermes gifting speed and flight.)

Having Steve Trevor and Etta Candy in military, security, or espionage organisations lessens the opportunity to use them as characters in the modern day. They can have a background there, but should be free from any form of military chain of command in continuity stories.

Zeus should be developed into, if not an opponent, then a very irksome and problematic ally due to his entrenched misogyny. (In fact, all the gods and goddesses should be looked at critically by Diana.)

A Jason-like character, if needed (which I'm not sure it is) should be developed based on the male Olympians, not by intruding into Diana's backstory.

Gorillas and Ferdinand are silly.

I would like to see Zeus explored after the ascension of Athena to the throne. Rucka's redemption arc for him didn't get far before the dark ages arrived

[marhawkman]

yeah they need to stop shaking up the status quo on Olympus and then ignoring it.

[WonderScott]

yeah they need to stop shaking up the status quo on Olympus and then ignoring it.

It is kind of interesting that it could be considered that there’s a power vacuum on Olympus and Apokolips right now.

You’d like Hera and Ares and Athena and Kalibak and Granny Goodness and Orion and Highfather might be anxious about that. If gods feel anxiety that is.

(Not that we’ll ever read stories about what’s happening with Zeus and Darkseid out of commission for the moment.)