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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    Wonder Woman villains are terrible.
    Cheetah is by far the worst and should be a stuffed trophy living in Deathstrokes house.
    Wonder Woman creators, writers, fans etc are very insecure and touchy about her being over shadowed. It's why the Wonder Girls are never important to the WW mythology, it's why there are no important male characters and it's why she is constantly being judged with respect to Superman and even the chief reason for her villains being awful.
    Wonder Woman books should focus on finding a genre and tone instead of trying to preach.
    The Wonder girls are never important to the book because the writers don't bother using them. She does not need important male characters abd anyone looking for those can seek else where. She is no more "preachy" than any comic.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Wonder Woman should be a rebel of sorts. She's well-versed in Amazonian law and philosophy, but doesn't readily buy into it. Compare this to things like the 2009 animated movie in which she spouts Amazonian ideals and is proven to be wrong. I'd rather see stories in which her Amazonian sisters tell her this and that, and her initial response should be skepticism. This is not to insist that the Amazons are a backwards people, eit


    her. The bigger point is that she's not so ready to accept things she's told when she'd rather figure things out for herself.

    The Amazons should have secret science laboratories underground. They may appear to live in technologically stagnant society, but that's because they're environmentalists/naturalists and purposefully limit how much manufacturing they do. But, they actually try to broaden their scientific knowledge.
    Um, that's how she was written in the 2009 movie. She is shown arguing that men are not all bad and uses a disguise to enter the tournament against her mother's wishes.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    I think Cheetah is a pretty mediocre idea, it's like Killer Moth when you think about it. She starts as a normal person who wears a suit and is revamped in to a monster, Moth is pretty similar in that regard. Cheetah has potential but so does everyone and potential ultimately does end at one point. Cheetah's potential ends at her being at best a Killer Croc level villain.

    Ares is a good villain but Wonder Woman fans and writers are vary of him because he's a mythology character and they dont want him to overshadow the character. I already explained this mentality in my post, Azz was clearly angling Ares in a manner similar to what Johns has done for Luthor, Adam and Sinestro but the people behind Wonder Woman just wouldn't have it.

    Circe is eh, Cyber has potential, probably Poison as well but the rest is just a suckfest.
    I fail to see how Azz's Ares was going to overshadow Dins given he died. People were annoyed she lost one of her villains not that he was overshadowing her.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Wonder girls are never important to the book because the writers don't bother using them. She does not need important male characters abd anyone looking for those can seek else where. She is no more "preachy" than any comic.
    The writers dont use them because they are afraid, they're afraid younger fans will easily tilt towards them, they're afraid because the target audience for all of them is the same.
    Yet Batman and Superman need prominent females in their brand for some reason.
    They are preachy in the sense that they dont have any genre or tone, all they largely have are a bunch of preachy themes in a vaccum just floating around.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I fail to see how Azz's Ares was going to overshadow Dins given he died. People were annoyed she lost one of her villains not that he was overshadowing her.
    He was angling her as a character similar to Johns take on Sinestro and Adam. Had DC continued they could have a similar character on their hands.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    The writers dont use them because they are afraid, they're afraid younger fans will easily tilt towards them, they're afraid because the target audience for all of them is the same.
    Yet Batman and Superman need prominent females in their brand for some reason.
    They are preachy in the sense that they dont have any genre or tone, all they largely have are a bunch of preachy themes in a vaccum just floating around.
    So? That's on the writers not the fans. Hell, WW fans have been asking for Cassie and Donna to be used consistently

    This such a false equivalency it's almost funny. The Super and Bat franchises need prominent females because of the sausage fest most superhero franchises are. WW is one of the few superhero books were women have more importance than men. If you want prominent male characters in comics you are not lacking.

    I could say the same of any given superhero book including Superman and Batman
    Super

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    He was angling her as a character similar to Johns take on Sinestro and Adam. Had DC continued they could have a similar character on their hands.
    He was doing no such thing. He killed Ares off himself and did so with total freedom from editors. Rucka's take on Ares from his original run is closer to Johns Sinestro or Adam. Hell, Messner-Loebs Circe and Cheetah are closer. Azz Ares had more in common with Obi Wan.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So? That's on the writers not the fans. Hell, WW fans have been asking for Cassie and Donna to be used consistently

    This such a false equivalency it's almost funny. The Super and Bat franchises need prominent females because of the sausage fest most superhero franchises are. WW is one of the few superhero books were women have more importance than men. If you want prominent male characters in comics you are not lacking.

    I could say the same of any given superhero book including Superman and Batman
    Super
    I specifically mentioned writers as well as fans in my post.

    It's not false equivalency, this is why people are sick of double standards disguising themselves as political correctness. All franchises need to expand, grow become and more inclusive, Batman is a mans fantasy, there is no need for an important female in that world by your own logic but as it is Catwoman and Harley are big, latter beats out Wonder Woman in terms of sales. Batgirl and Batwoman are also big. Almost all the women made it to films before Wonder Woman. The results speak for themselves, if you're gonna pigeon hole yourself then you're going to be the ultimate loser. In the end the whole U.N controversy that Wonder Woman is also as much as a cheese cake franchise as the rest.

    Batman and Superman have a tone and genre they can fall back on in the end, Wonder Woman has none, even Flash and GLs have them. Wonder Woman should logically be about mythology but once again writers and fans sense danger at the thought of mythological characters potentially usurping her. Even in this thread there are such examples, someone here is even afraid of Hippolyta LOL.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    He was doing no such thing. He killed Ares off himself and did so with total freedom from editors. Rucka's take on Ares from his original run is closer to Johns Sinestro or Adam. Hell, Messner-Loebs Circe and Cheetah are closer. Azz Ares had more in common with Obi Wan.
    Yes and Azz is at fault too, he abandoned the project, DC should have continued it.

  10. #55
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    Fans are not afraid of Donna and Cassie overshadowing Diana. The Jimenez run featured those two and is considered a fan favorite. By contrast, I've seen numerous posts on this and other sites calling for a culling of the the Bat and Super families. Wonder fans would love if the franchise was expanded and the many female characters she had were consistently used. Oh, you mentioned one fan here who felt Hippolyta got used too much? Would you like me to post at least three threads on this site complaining about the Bat family? Or the number of posts complaining about Jon? Give me a break.

    Those characters made it to film's because they are extensions of franchises revolving around male characters.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    Yes and Azz is at fault too, he abandoned the project, DC should have continued it.
    What project? What even makes you the MJ he had anything in mind for Ares besides an Obi Wan like character?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Fans are not afraid of Donna and Cassie overshadowing Diana. The Jimenez run featured those two and is considered a fan favorite. By contrast, I've seen numerous posts on this and other sites calling for a culling of the the Bat and Super families. Wonder fans would love if the franchise was expanded and the many female characters she had were consistently used. Oh, you mentioned one fan here who felt Hippolyta got used too much? Would you like me to post at least three threads on this site complaining about the Bat family? Or the number of posts complaining about Jon? Give me a break.

    Those characters made it to film's because they are extensions of franchises revolving around male characters.
    I said writers too man. You yourself said Wonder writers dont use them, question is why?
    The Bat family is bloated and the fans who argue for the culling are fans of one Robin hoping the other would disappear, stuff like that. The franchise has expanded to that point, this cannot be denied. If the Bat guys were insecure we'd have never made it this far in the first place. Same goes for Superman.
    So? and then males from WW films will also make it for the sane reason.
    As for Ares, he went through the same phase Adam and Sinestro did, that's why I believe.

  13. #58
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    Why? Because they don't care for them or because they feel their stories don't need them? It sure as hell has nothing to do with fans not liking them. Hell, one of the many complaints about the New 52 was that Donna wasn't around and Diana and Cassie didn't interact. That writers don't use them because fans hate them is laughable.

    Bat fans have made it this far in spite of insecurity. We're talking about the fandom that voted for a legacy character to be killed off and don't even get me started over the complaints Cass and the Steph faced even before Rebirth. The bloated argument doesn't wash given they have access to a book with a solo Batman. If you don't like the Batfamily you can avoid them.

    No one ever complained about lack of prominent males in a WW comic.

  14. #59
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    You do know Sinestro and Adam were still villains right?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    I think Cheetah is a pretty mediocre idea, it's like Killer Moth when you think about it. She starts as a normal person who wears a suit and is revamped in to a monster, Moth is pretty similar in that regard. Cheetah has potential but so does everyone and potential ultimately does end at one point. Cheetah's potential ends at her being at best a Killer Croc level villain.

    Ares is a good villain but Wonder Woman fans and writers are vary of him because he's a mythology character and they dont want him to overshadow the character. I already explained this mentality in my post, Azz was clearly angling Ares in a manner similar to what Johns has done for Luthor, Adam and Sinestro but the people behind Wonder Woman just wouldn't have it.

    Circe is eh, Cyber has potential, probably Poison as well but the rest is just a suckfest.
    Except in current continuity, Cheetah was never a woman in a costume. Croc is also not powered by a god, nor does he have any phds, or access to dangerous relics. Equating these two characters because they're both based off animals will always be an incredibly shallow reading. The same shallow reading that severaly suppossedly good writers make of her which leads to a self fullfilling prophecy of underwhelming stories.

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