Controversial Wonderverse Opinions

[Vanguard-01]

Except in current continuity, Cheetah was never a woman in a costume. Croc is also not powered by a god, nor does he have any phds, or access to dangerous relics. Equating these two characters because they're both based off animals will always be an incredibly shallow reading. The same shallow reading that severaly suppossedly good writers make of her which leads to a self fullfilling prophecy of underwhelming stories.

Yep. Johns was on his way to doing a great job of revamping Cheetah into a serious threat. The fact that other writers ignored that and went back to treating her like crap is their failing, not the character's.

New 52 Cheetah's first appearance saw her as a woman evil enough to enslave a god living inside her. A god who is supposed to be a force for good, no less. She slashed Wonder Woman's throat and left her lying defeated at her feet. She attacked the Justice League and took Superman and the Flash out of the fight with one bite each. Heck, she didn't take them out of the fight, she drafted them into joining HER side in the fight. She took a flying punch from Diana and appeared just fine.

You could honestly make a good argument that Cheetah could have possibly won that fight against the League. She didn't win because she didn't WANT to win. She allowed the League to take her prisoner because that was part of the plan for Forever Evil.

Go ahead and tell me Killer Croc or Killer Moth could've EVER done that well.

Now, with Rebirth, it remains to be seen what Cheetah's status will be. But Johns proved that it is MORE that possible to revamp Cheetah into a truly frightening and powerful foe who can actually menace Justice League.

[CRaymond]

Wonder Woman's prevailing themes and motifs should always come back to sexual politics. That's the impetus of her origin and where her character shines brightest. Her villains should be old ideas and outdated worldviews --including stereotypically macho mythology. I can't blame mid century comics writers for not being able to harness and amplify Marston's original themes, and Perez was only able to do what he did because his editorial staff was ALSO starting Vertigo... WW was aimed at adults.

[The World]

The invisible jet is fine and no worse a concept than the Batcave or Fortress of Solitude. Seriously it's fine just because you find it silly doesn't make it bad.

[DochaDocha]

Um, that's how she was written in the 2009 movie. She is shown arguing that men are not all bad and uses a disguise to enter the tournament against her mother's wishes.

And then later in the movie, Steve Trevor has to correct her about male/female politics.

[Amazon Swordsman]

"Diana should not be able to tell lies"

Doesn't that just make her an avatar of truth?

[AmiMizuno]

"Diana should not be able to tell lies"

Doesn't that just make her an avatar of truth?

Wouldn't that make her less human? I mean there are certain you can never tell.

[Amazon Swordsman]

Wouldn't that make her less human? I mean there are certain you can never tell.

Lol I just thought that was something folks considered boring or something.

[SteveGus]

The urge to cover her up because of "sexual objectification", "male gaze", and other such tedious cant should be resisted utterly.

If you think purple healing rays, kangas, invisible planes, and magic lassos are somehow passé or unfashionable, you have no business writing the character.

Her lore is as rich as Silver Age Superman's, and her villains better than Silver Age Batman's. What Superman's and Batman's lore and villains have that Wonder Woman's dont is writers willing to use them. The lore just needs to be used.

[darkseidpwns]

Except in current continuity, Cheetah was never a woman in a costume. Croc is also not powered by a god, nor does he have any phds, or access to dangerous relics. Equating these two characters because they're both based off animals will always be an incredibly shallow reading. The same shallow reading that severaly suppossedly good writers make of her which leads to a self fullfilling prophecy of underwhelming stories.

It's got nothing to do with continuity, it's the basic idea behind the character. The person who created Cheetah saw her as a Catwoman type, DC then turns her in to monster, this is pound for pound the exact same thing Killer Moth went through and it's also very similar to what Croc went though. So Cheetah was empowered by Gods, Moth was empowered by the devil, Croc was empowered by science. End result is the same, when your villain goes through this type of an overhaul then it's clear that the company is trying to salvage a broken concept. The entire basis of the character has been switched out altogether here. Also Croc like Cheetah is a cannibal, Croc like Cheetah was normalish and then got empowered, Croc like Cheetah hates humanity, both want riches/driven by petty crime, both are animal themed, there are far more similarities here than you're giving credit for. Cheetah is a female Croc/Moth and any potential she has is the same potential both of them have. If Cheetah deserves all these attempts to make her work then so does Moth. In the end however Moth will never be Joker or Magneto and by that same logic neither will Cheetah. DC needs to stop priming her as Diana's chief villain, she'll never be that character.

[AmiMizuno]

It's got nothing to do with continuity, it's the basic idea behind the character. The person who created Cheetah saw her as a Catwoman type, DC then turns her in to monster, this is pound for pound the exact same thing Killer Moth went through and it's also very similar to what Croc went though. So Cheetah was empowered by Gods, Moth was empowered by the devil, Croc was empowered by science. End result is the same, when your villain goes through this type of an overhaul then it's clear that the company is trying to salvage a broken concept. The entire basis of the character has been switched out altogether here. Also Croc like Cheetah is a cannibal, Croc like Cheetah was normalish and then got empowered, Croc like Cheetah hates humanity, both want riches, both are animal themed, there are far more similarities here than you're giving credit for. Cheetah is a female Croc/Moth and any potential she has is the same potential both of them have. If Cheetah deserves all these attempts to make her work then so does Moth. In the end however Moth will never be Joker or Magneto and by that same logic neither will Cheetah. DC needs to stop priming her as Diana's chief villain, she'll never be that character.

One part Cheetah was never a catwoman like character but I wonder who is jealous. She saw herself has better then Diana. Cheetah is one of the chief villains. Cheetah is the mirror opposite in G.A. She never worked worked and wanted to be in the attention of people. All Comic characters from many different companies have similar characters . I mean DC is turning Harley into Deadpool. All Three of the main vilians all have the same thing. They are the mirror of the hero. They want to tear the hero down.

Cheetah: Wants the magically powers and doesn't work to get them

Lex Luthor: Jealous of Superman and wants to show him people can turn on him.

Joker:He wants to make Batman insane and show him the world we live is in just boring.

[darkseidpwns]

Why? Because they don't care for them or because they feel their stories don't need them? It sure as hell has nothing to do with fans not liking them. Hell, one of the many complaints about the New 52 was that Donna wasn't around and Diana and Cassie didn't interact. That writers don't use them because fans hate them is laughable.

Bat fans have made it this far in spite of insecurity. We're talking about the fandom that voted for a legacy character to be killed off and don't even get me started over the complaints Cass and the Steph faced even before Rebirth. The bloated argument doesn't wash given they have access to a book with a solo Batman. If you don't like the Batfamily you can avoid them.

No one ever complained about lack of prominent males in a WW comic.

I said writers, WRITERS. Fans encompass not just internet geeks, I specifically used the word writer and yes these people are afraid. If in 50+ years they're incapable of coming up with decent villains, supporting characters then it's not because they're incompetent it's because they're unwilling.

Batman writers dont have insecurities, they're always creating new villains and supporting characters. Jason was killed because people were fans of the other Robin, Cass and Steph get that treatment because the establishment favors the other Batgirl. So yes there is insecurity in the sub fanbase but at no point have Batman writers been threatened with the idea of Robin or Batgirl surpassing Batman. On the Wonder Woman front the Wonder girls tap in to the same core demographic that Diana does. There's outright competition between these characters and that's why they're neglected.

Batman and Wonder Woman's positions are not even remotely similar, when WW spawns these dozens of allies and other characters then we'll talk.

Because they know that it's foolish to even ask for a decent male character from Wonder Woman.

[AmiMizuno]

DC is not the only character basic origins. The whole hero happens near science thing has been done to death and yet no one complaints about that. Cheetah can be done right and well. She symbolizes the brokenness of what women have to go thought to be fit for society. Her mind was broken when Diana an outside was able to get the attention. She wasn't the conformity of women. Spider-Man gets bitten by a spider. He gets spider powers. Barry gets hit by lighting science happens.

[darkseidpwns]

One part Cheetah was never a catwoman like character but I wonder who is jealous. She saw herself has better then Diana. Cheetah is one of the chief villains. Cheetah is the mirror opposite in G.A. She never worked worked and wanted to be in the attention of people. All Comic characters from many different companies have similar characters . I mean DC is turning Harley into Deadpool. All Three of the main vilians all have the same thing. They are the mirror of the hero. They want to tear the hero down.

Cheetah: Wants the magically powers and doesn't work to get them

Lex Luthor: Jealous of Superman and wants to show him people can turn on him.

Joker:He wants to make Batman insane and show him the world we live is in just boring.

So Cheetah doesn't want to work to get powers eh? well then shouldn't she be sitting on a couch somewhere?
Mirror opposite doesn't mean anything, Moth is a mirror opposite of Batman, Hush is a mirror opposite of Bruce and so on.
Harley didn't turn in to a monster with fangs and a desire for flesh.

[darkseidpwns]

DC is not the only character basic origins. The whole hero happens near science thing has been done to death and yet no one complaints about that. Cheetah can be done right and well. She symbolizes the brokenness of what women have to go thought to be fit for society. Her mind was broken when Diana an outside was able to get the attention. She wasn't the conformity of women. Spider-Man gets bitten by a spider. He gets spider powers. Barry gets hit by lighting science happens.

Croc represents the brokeness of society, prejudice etc, see.

[AmiMizuno]

So Cheetah doesn't want to work to get powers eh? well then shouldn't she be sitting on a couch somewhere?
Mirror opposite doesn't mean anything, Moth is a mirror opposite of Batman, Hush is a mirror opposite of Bruce and so on.
Harley didn't turn in to a monster with fangs and a desire for flesh.

You know what I mean. She wanted to do it ht easy way. General she would simple steal an item that she knows will give her powers.


But Harley is still being a copy cat character of deadpool.