Controversial Wonderverse Opinions

[AmiMizuno]

Croc represents the brokeness of society, prejudice etc, see.

Many villains do. The joker does. So you can't say Cheetah can't work when many villains have similar backgrounds. It's how it's done. I mean G.A cheetah came from. So killer croc is the copy of many other villains.

[darkseidpwns]

You know what I mean. She wanted to do it ht easy way. General she would simple steal an item that she knows will give her powers.


But Harley is still being a copy cat character of deadpool.

The Rogues want it the easy way too, difference being they're actually good characters.

Deadpool is a successful character, Cheetah and guys like Moth are not.

[darkseidpwns]

Many villains do. The joker does. So you can't say Cheetah can't work when many villains have similar backgrounds. It's how it's done. I mean G.A cheetah came from. So killer croc is the copy of many other villains.

Or maybe monster Cheetah is the copy of Croc?

[Agent Z]

I said writers, WRITERS. Fans encompass not just internet geeks, I specifically used the word writer and yes these people are afraid. If in 50+ years they're incapable of coming up with decent villains, supporting characters then it's not because they're incompetent it's because they're unwilling.

Batman writers dont have insecurities, they're always creating new villains and supporting characters. Jason was killed because people were fans of the other Robin, Cass and Steph get that treatment because the establishment favors the other Batgirl. So yes there is insecurity in the sub fanbase but at no point have Batman writers been threatened with the idea of Robin or Batgirl surpassing Batman. On the Wonder Woman front the Wonder girls tap in to the same core demographic that Diana does. There's outright competition between these characters and that's why they're neglected.

Batman and Wonder Woman's positions are not even remotely similar, when WW spawns these dozens of allies and other characters then we'll talk.

Because they know that it's foolish to even ask for a decent male character from Wonder Woman.

i don't even get the point you're trying to make here. If you want to single out writers then say you're talking about writers. No one who is a fan of WW hates the WW girls. No writer who is a fan of WW is insecure about Them surpassing Diana. Hell, I wish that were the case as it meant the Wonder Girls were being treated with respect by DC.

And lol at Bat writers not being insecure. DC's staff and fandom is filled with people terrified of competition with the so called icons. Look what happened to John, Wally, Cass and Steph. Or the Milestone characters. Hell, Kingdom Come named one of such characters after a false god in the Bible. That is a level of pettiness that cannot be matched.

Yeah it's real tough to find decent male characters anywhere. There's only like a trillion of those floating around. Yeah that's really a priority these days.

[Agent Z]

Or maybe monster Cheetah is the copy of Croc?

You do know that monsters that hate humanity and eat people are a dime a dozen in fiction right? Croc is nowhere near as unique as you think he is. Superhero comics don't have a whole lot of original ideas any way.

[Vanguard-01]

Batman writers dont have insecurities, they're always creating new villains and supporting characters. Jason was killed because people were fans of the other Robin, Cass and Steph get that treatment because the establishment favors the other Batgirl. So yes there is insecurity in the sub fanbase but at no point have Batman writers been threatened with the idea of Robin or Batgirl surpassing Batman. On the Wonder Woman front the Wonder girls tap in to the same core demographic that Diana does. There's outright competition between these characters and that's why they're neglected.

1.) Batman writers keep creating new villains and supporting characters.......and then subsequent writers continue to use them and build on them. Wonder Woman writers are also constantly bringing in new characters, only to have them swept away into oblivion by the next creative team that comes aboard. If Editorial would stop letting every new writing team wipe away the stories and characters that came before, maybe Wonder Woman's rogues would actually have a chance to become what Batman's rogues have become.

2.) Yeah, I'm going to have to ask you to present some evidence that supports your claim that Cassie and Donna aren't being developed because DC thinks they'll supplant Diana? What are you basing that on? Have you talked to any DC writers who have stated this? Has Dan Didio, Jim Lee, Geoff Johns, or ANYONE in authority in DC said anything to support this? How is this ANYTHING other than your personal pet theory?

Because they know that it's foolish to even ask for a decent male character from Wonder Woman.

Once again? Where's your evidence? Where are the interviews in which it's made clear that Editorial won't let writers come up with new male characters for Wonder Woman? Where is the market research data that proves that Wonder Woman fans are actively hostile to new male characters?

There have been PLENTY of new male characters brought into the Wonder Woman mythos over the years. They always tend to suffer exactly the same fate as all other new characters or concepts in Wonder Woman: the next creative team comes along and chucks them into the garbage, where they are quickly forgotten.

Off the top of my head?

1.) Gail Simone introduced Achilles Warkiller: a male Wonder Woman analogue with a really cool look, a cool explanation for how his powers work, a freaking FLYING DOUBLE TRUNKED ELEPHANT as a war mount, and he was even established as being gay, so he added diversity to Diana's world. He was well-received by the Wonder Woman fanbase. At least he was well-received on this forum, if memory serves me. I certainly don't remember anyone screaming for his removal from the mythos.

2.) One better? Gail Simone was the first writer to touch on the idea of a race of male Amazons: the Gargareans. We never got to know them very well, but once again I remember no outcry that they be consigned to oblivion without delay.

3.) Gail Simone also introduced Nemesis as a love interest and supporting character for Wonder Woman. He was not hated. Well, not universally, anyway. I didn't like the guy, but that was just his personality. Other people on this forum thought he was the greatest thing that ever lived and that Wonder Woman was insane to not want to jump into the shower with him.

4.) Gail Simone brought Sarge Steel in as head of the Department of Metahuman Affairs. Don't remember anyone screaming for HIS blood.

5.) Rucka introduced Ferdinand and several male staff members for Diana's embassy. Every one of them was alive and well by the end of his run. Where did they go? What happened to them? Who the heck knows? I assure you, though, NO ONE was screaming for those filthy males to be ejected from the Wonder Woman book without delay.

I'm sure there's plenty more, but five should be good enough for now.

Bottom line? Bringing new male characters into the Wonder Woman mythos is not a new concept. It's been tried, and rarely have these characters (male OR female) been hated by the fanbase to the point where DC would see wisdom in removing them. Until and unless DC is willing to put some effort into actually building up Diana's world, new characters of ANY type are going to be fleeting things at best.

It's DC's fault that this situation exists. If they put a fraction of the effort they put into promoting Batman and his world into promoting Wonder Woman and her world, we'd be having a very different conversation right now. Don't blame the Wonder Woman fanbase for something that is not remotely our fault.

[darkseidpwns]

You do know that monsters that hate humanity and eat people are a dime a dozen in fiction right? Croc is nowhere near as unique as you think he is. Superhero comics don't have a whole lot of original ideas any way.

Yes and that's why Croc will never be a major villain, apply that same logic to Cheetah that's what I'm saying.

[darkseidpwns]

i don't even get the point you're trying to make here. If you want to single out writers then say you're talking about writers. No one who is a fan of WW hates the WW girls. No writer who is a fan of WW is insecure about Them surpassing Diana. Hell, I wish that were the case as it meant the Wonder Girls were being treated with respect by DC.

And lol at Bat writers not being insecure. DC's staff and fandom is filled with people terrified of competition with the so called icons. Look what happened to John, Wally, Cass and Steph. Or the Milestone characters. Hell, Kingdom Come named one of such characters after a false god in the Bible. That is a level of pettiness that cannot be matched.

Yeah it's real tough to find decent male characters anywhere. There's only like a trillion of those floating around. Yeah that's really a priority these days.

Then why are they neglected? you people keep claiming that writers dont invest that DC doesn't bother etc but WHY? it's been decades.
What does Wally,Milestone,KC and Barry have to do with Batman? I actually agree that Barry and Hal establishment is insecure about those guys but they still gave them a chance. Cass and Steph I've already explained is down to Babs insecurities.
It's not the males, it's the failure of the franchise to produce any notable supporting character and villain either male or female.

[Agent Z]

Then why are they neglected? you people keep claiming that writers dont invest that DC doesn't bother etc but WHY? it's been decades.
What does Wally,Milestone,KC and Barry have to do with Batman? I actually agree that Barry and Hal establishment is insecure about those guys but they still gave them a chance. Cass and Steph I've already explained is down to Babs insecurities.
It's not the males, it's the failure of the franchise to produce any notable supporting character and villain either male or female.

Maybe you should ask DC. They're the ones in control and ownership of these characters not us. As I've stated and you've ignored the WW fan base has nothing to gain by wanting Donna and Cassie neglected. Vanguard has already disproven your points but don't let little things like facts influence your opinion.

Not exactly disproving my point here.

Nice goal post moving.

[Agent Z]

Yes and that's why Croc will never be a major villain, apply that same logic to Cheetah that's what I'm saying.

Says you. Most major villains in comics have schticks that are pretty common.

[darkseidpwns]

Maybe you should ask DC. They're the ones in control and ownership of these characters not us. As I've stated and you've ignored the WW fan base has nothing to gain by wanting Donna and Cassie neglected. Vanguard has already disproven your points but don't let little things like facts influence your opinion.

Not exactly disproving my point here.

Nice goal post moving.

I'm giving my opinion on why I believe DC neglects the Wonder Woman mythos.
Not even trying to
Nope

[darkseidpwns]

Says you. Most major villains in comics have schticks that are pretty common.

And the ones that became big were unique for their time.

[darkseidpwns]

1.) Batman writers keep creating new villains and supporting characters.......and then subsequent writers continue to use them and build on them. Wonder Woman writers are also constantly bringing in new characters, only to have them swept away into oblivion by the next creative team that comes aboard. If Editorial would stop letting every new writing team wipe away the stories and characters that came before, maybe Wonder Woman's rogues would actually have a chance to become what Batman's rogues have become.

2.) Yeah, I'm going to have to ask you to present some evidence that supports your claim that Cassie and Donna aren't being developed because DC thinks they'll supplant Diana? What are you basing that on? Have you talked to any DC writers who have stated this? Has Dan Didio, Jim Lee, Geoff Johns, or ANYONE in authority in DC said anything to support this? How is this ANYTHING other than your personal pet theory?



Once again? Where's your evidence? Where are the interviews in which it's made clear that Editorial won't let writers come up with new male characters for Wonder Woman? Where is the market research data that proves that Wonder Woman fans are actively hostile to new male characters?

There have been PLENTY of new male characters brought into the Wonder Woman mythos over the years. They always tend to suffer exactly the same fate as all other new characters or concepts in Wonder Woman: the next creative team comes along and chucks them into the garbage, where they are quickly forgotten.

Off the top of my head?

1.) Gail Simone introduced Achilles Warkiller: a male Wonder Woman analogue with a really cool look, a cool explanation for how his powers work, a freaking FLYING DOUBLE TRUNKED ELEPHANT as a war mount, and he was even established as being gay, so he added diversity to Diana's world. He was well-received by the Wonder Woman fanbase. At least he was well-received on this forum, if memory serves me. I certainly don't remember anyone screaming for his removal from the mythos.

2.) One better? Gail Simone was the first writer to touch on the idea of a race of male Amazons: the Gargareans. We never got to know them very well, but once again I remember no outcry that they be consigned to oblivion without delay.

3.) Gail Simone also introduced Nemesis as a love interest and supporting character for Wonder Woman. He was not hated. Well, not universally, anyway. I didn't like the guy, but that was just his personality. Other people on this forum thought he was the greatest thing that ever lived and that Wonder Woman was insane to not want to jump into the shower with him.

4.) Gail Simone brought Sarge Steel in as head of the Department of Metahuman Affairs. Don't remember anyone screaming for HIS blood.

5.) Rucka introduced Ferdinand and several male staff members for Diana's embassy. Every one of them was alive and well by the end of his run. Where did they go? What happened to them? Who the heck knows? I assure you, though, NO ONE was screaming for those filthy males to be ejected from the Wonder Woman book without delay.

I'm sure there's plenty more, but five should be good enough for now.

Bottom line? Bringing new male characters into the Wonder Woman mythos is not a new concept. It's been tried, and rarely have these characters (male OR female) been hated by the fanbase to the point where DC would see wisdom in removing them. Until and unless DC is willing to put some effort into actually building up Diana's world, new characters of ANY type are going to be fleeting things at best.

It's DC's fault that this situation exists. If they put a fraction of the effort they put into promoting Batman and his world into promoting Wonder Woman and her world, we'd be having a very different conversation right now. Don't blame the Wonder Woman fanbase for something that is not remotely our fault.

Obviously I dont have evidence, it's a controversial opinion thread, this is my opinion and I'll say it again when I say fans I dont mean us internet warriors. I'm referring to the establishment, I think they're afraid, the same guys who're afraid of Wally and Kyle/Jon but in Diana's case I think they are far more protective and sensitive.

[Vanguard-01]

I'm giving my opinion on why I believe DC neglects the Wonder Woman mythos.
Not even trying to
Nope

But you WILL go on and on about how Wonder Woman's lack of great characters is somehow her fault or her fan's fault.

The answer to all you indictments is "Because DC does not try to build Diana's world." Why do they do this? Who knows? But THAT is the real reason behind Wonder Woman's (and most other DC character's) inability to compare to Batman and his world.

[darkseidpwns]

But you WILL go on and on about how Wonder Woman's lack of great characters is somehow her fault or her fan's fault.

The answer to all you indictments is "Because DC does not try to build Diana's world." Why do they do this? Who knows? But THAT is the real reason behind Wonder Woman's (and most other DC character's) inability to compare to Batman and his world.

It's not her fault for obvious reasons and yes by fans I mean everyone including writers and editors. They're afraid and insecure and while I dont have evidence I stand by that.