Who else remembers the great Scarlet Spider series, written by Yost?!

[Venom2099]

It was good...one of the first non 90s marvel books I tried when I first started getting into comics....towards the end it seemed like it was being lazy but maybe because they knew it was getting canned. whatever happeded to yost?

[Huntsman Spider]

It was good...one of the first non 90s marvel books I tried when I first started getting into comics....towards the end it seemed like it was being lazy but maybe because they knew it was getting canned. whatever happeded to yost?

New Warriors and Amazing X-Men. There was supposed to be a crossover, but New Warriors got canceled at issue 12, so no crossover, and more pertinently to this thread, no chance at properly concluding the story threads Yost was setting up for Kaine and Aracely.

[MarioHerald]

I remember it. I loved it so much it is still my favorite series and even opened one of those fairly popular appreciation threads of CBR for Kaine and Aracely here.

http://community.comicbookresources....)-appreciation


Like Pav, I see some elements that could have gone better. But like 5Eyes and scribbleMind said, I wish it had gone on longer.

Like SuperiorIronman, Huntsman Spider and Highland Chicken, I also wish we get a continuation of its story (specially the Aztec mythology plot line :-) ).

And like Adset and 5Eyes, I think one of its greatest strength was its supporting cast (specially Aracely). I only wish more pages could have been dedicated to this.

It's actually one of the things I enjoy the most of comics (or any medium): character's loved ones and friends. For example: I love every appearance of Ms. Marvel's family, who teach Kamala new wisdom, make her reflect and stand up for her; the care Ghost Rider Robbie Reyes professes for his little brother Gabe; the camaraderie of the New Mutants and other incarnations of the X-men. Etc. Every story needs its own Aunt May, John J. Jameson, MJ for its Spider-man. But I also relish when these "side" characters get to have arcs or developments of their own and share these with the "protagonists".

From my point of view, Scarlet Spider as a series did a good enough job with it (specially with Aracely) — they helped Kaine's journey and got some good moments of their own and with Kaine.



Now, in regard to the future of its characters, I would like to collect here some comments about Kaine's present condition in Clone Conspiracy.

- Pav thinks Kaine's status as a flawed clone is what makes him tick. xpyred thinks Kaine's degeneration returning is the same as Peter constantly being broke and depending on his friends and Aunt May - its a tired ass song with no progression. So does DV1Band.

In this case, I'm going to have to agree with Pav. Why?


1) As a narrative, to revisit themes and old perils with a character is not necessarily a sign of regression and it is actually fairly common in the closing steps of a character's arc... or when opening one (hopefully the case here).

Note: Comics sometimes do commit the sin of revisiting a theme too many times. And worse, without much significant variance (X-men and the Phoenix... to certain extent).

Pav, boots, Huntsman Spider, classicgamer made other interesting comments that kind of touch on this (and more) in a previous thread:

http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post2424284

http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post2427103

http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post2428207

http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post2424084



2) More importantly: Kaine is not the same person he was during the Clone Saga. Not he is in the same position.

He has done some good and tried to give himself the opportunity to really change. He saved people, facing street, supernatural, cosmic, human, Inhuman, Eternal threats to save strangers... and his own loved ones.

That's right.He has grown to love and care for other people and — for a time — even making them part of his daily life. He, the usually crazy, violent, depressed loner.

And now, as a result of it all, he has friends who likewise do care about him and can support him (Aracely, Donald, Wally, Faira Sar Namora, Spider-Gwen), could still do so if they settle some differences (Annabelle) or can help him in a fight and stick their necks for him (his New Warriors teammates). He also has now the respect and acceptance of his brother, Peter Parker, even if he has yet to learn about it.



3) Like Pav mentioned "despite his growth, he is still the man who was haunting the shadows of the Jackal's laboratory back during the 90s Clone Saga. The separation he inflicts upon himself due to his conception of who he is still lives within him, clearly". So why not join Peter in the return of their brother Ben Reilly and take on some properties he had (but please not all of them!) when they last saw him for this story?

I must admit I will miss the stingers... and the giant Other form — it looked tremendously cool in Spider-verse — but I see no reason why we can't dispense of them while Clone Conspiracy lasts. And even more, if following stories demand it. And that includes the degeneration creeping back.

That said, I hope he regains those stingers if other more action-focused stories come into the horizon. :P

(By the way, the Other form transformation has gained something of a momentum as a finishing/ultimate ability among those gaming enthusiasts who wish to one day play as Kaine in a video game).



4) Thematically, this puts him in the same path of his ward, friend and possibly the only person to fully understand him: Aracely.

They're now both on their way to die.

(But hopefully won't?).


Let's recap: during Scarlet Spider, several foes, dream entities and Aracely herself stated she would die. Particularly, during the last of her visions in the series, a burning eagle (?) and a snake told her she would die if she crossed the border to Mexico. And she did cross... with Kaine.

—"Mictlan is rising".—

Later on, in New Warriors, while dining with other members of ther team (Kaine being absent), she stated she would again be saved by Kaine, somewhat obfuscating and possibly contradicting the visions. Unless of course that Kaine's actions in Clone Conspiracy are what was she referring to (I know Yost and Dan Slott have sometimes talked about their stories. But I'm not aware of the extent of such talks).

Still, even later, when she was goading Speedball to dance with her at a party, she let slip that that could be the only opportunity they would have. When pressed for details, she repeated the Mictlan line and added "I will die soon", before putting on a smile and triying to change the subject to the dancing again.

(She clearly prefers to bottle up her feelings about it and not worry others; opting instead to enjoy and make the most of her possibly dwindling time with her friends.

Carpe Diem?

As far as I know, she hasn't even communicated that little detail of her visions to Kaine. Or at least that hasn't been shown).


So, Kaine is dying because the degeneration of his body. Aracely may die in the future due a supernatural calamity involving the Aztec Underworld and incredible evil people (?) that are after her.

It's one of the many reasons why I want to see where that Aztec mythology plot line was leading to. Other of the reasons is because, intrigued by it, I have made some light reading on real-world Aztec mythos and... Oh, Boy!

It's an incredible interesting pantheon... and very dark.

Mysterious.

Dangerous.

Bloody.

Bizarre.

Deliciously unnerving?


And she, Hummingbird Aracely and her reluctant champion, Kaine the Scarlet Spider, are in the middle of it all.


Imagine if someone were to make a comic of it. Like Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Larry Lieber and more did with the Asgardians in that book called Journey into Mystery.

... I decided readers were already pretty familiar with the Greek and Roman gods. It might be fun to delve into the old Norse legends...

So, in that spirit: It might be fun to delve into the old Aztec legends...



Also, I want to know more about her past: so far, nothing is known, other that she had parents at some point (I hope we get to meet them or other members of her family. Maybe they will be interesting? If they're not dead already, of course: Scarlet Spider was fairly ominous on that point).


(By the way: Pav, I know you sometimes have mentioned to desire to see a more dangerous, sometimes villanous, unpredictable Kaine. Although Aracely's influence is normally more positive-inclined, from what I have read of her... god's counterpart in the real world and some of the nature of its like, I think she could just as easily push him in a far, far darker and stranger path... if that's the story to be told ).

[MarioHerald]

Sorry to double post, but hey, news about Kaine (and Ben Reilly!)

http://www.cbr.com/exclusive-ben-rei...d-mark-bagley/

[John Ossie]

I enjoyed it very much personally speaking and I am kinda bummed that no-one seems to want to use Hummingbird in any of the ongoings as I liked that character.

[Aioros22]

7.5/8/10 for me.

It was one of Marvel`s runs I enjoyed reading the most at the time, focusing mostly on character interactions. There were arcs I didn`t like as much as others but generally speaking it was one of the strongest offerings relaed to the franchise I recall reading with gusto.

Hoping that not all progression is lost on Kaine so he can pair with Ben on relative peer standing.

[Highland Chicken]

I enjoyed it very much personally speaking and I am kinda bummed that no-one seems to want to use Hummingbird in any of the ongoings as I liked that character.

On the other hand, none of the writers using her means she's not gonna be killed off in some stupid fashion to show that the villain means business.

[John Ossie]

On the other hand, none of the writers using her means she's not gonna be killed off in some stupid fashion to show that the villain means business.

True, there is that. And since David is doing the new Scarlet Spider book (in which he's said that Kaine will be playing a role in it) then there's a chance (admittedly it's probably a very slim one) that she'll feature in it.

[DV1Band]

True, there is that. And since David is doing the new Scarlet Spider book (in which he's said that Kaine will be playing a role in it) then there's a chance (admittedly it's probably a very slim one) that she'll feature in it.

I feel like Kaine will be wasted. Ben going back to being the Scarlet Spider doesn't make sense. Also, the fact that he's doing in the face of knowing that Kaine took the name is a pretty terrible thing to do.

[DV1Band]

I hope so, too. As much of a long shot as it is, I hope the New Warriors show up in the climax of The Clone Conspiracy, with Aracely/Hummingbird among them to greet Kaine one more time (and say goodbye if he does bite it, after all).



Whoa, that is awesome.

It was one of the best presents that I ever got...

[Digifiend]

True, there is that. And since David is doing the new Scarlet Spider book (in which he's said that Kaine will be playing a role in it) then there's a chance (admittedly it's probably a very slim one) that she'll feature in it.

At least if she doesn't, as far as we know she's still with the New Warriors. They never disbanded, they just lost two members (Scarlet Spider, during Spider-Verse, and then Nova, when he joined the ANAD Avengers).

[John Ossie]

At least if she doesn't, as far as we know she's still with the New Warriors. They never disbanded, they just lost two members (Scarlet Spider, during Spider-Verse, and then Nova, when he joined the ANAD Avengers).

Yeah, at least she's still available at least. It's just been a little while since I've read a story with her in it so I miss her LOL.

[neonrideraryeh]

Yost's Scarlet Spider run was one of the best Marvel runs I've ever read. It set itself up efficiently and was really good throughout. Aracely was a great character (to me she was a better kamala type character before kamala was a thing) who deserves to come back. I really wish the series would come back and finish off the threads it set up. Kaine was a great lead, offering something different to Peter (while Ben was basically another Peter, I reckon).

[DV1Band]

Yost's Scarlet Spider run was one of the best Marvel runs I've ever read. It set itself up efficiently and was really good throughout. Aracely was a great character (to me she was a better kamala type character before kamala was a thing) who deserves to come back. I really wish the series would come back and finish off the threads it set up. Kaine was a great lead, offering something different to Peter (while Ben was basically another Peter, I reckon).

The consensus here seems to be that although Ben was the original Scarlet Spider, Kaine earned the name, and should be the one to continue with it.

[Pav]

MarioHerald, that was an awesome post. Really enjoyed your thoughts and the summarization of the various perspectives!

Honestly, I don't think we have to worry about Kaine's Yost plot lines being abandoned. PAD always uses useful loose plot threads when they fit into what he's doing. If this new Scarlet book lasts, I bet we'll see them. Maybe even the New Warriors, too!

And for what it's worth, despite Kaine's time with the name, Ben will always be the one true Scarlet Spider to me.

-Pav, who also thinks the "Sensational" title belongs to him as well...