Some harsh Retailer words towards Marvel

[TheStrongestOne]

My LCBS is saying they are selling less and less Marvel superhero titles, but Star Wars is killing it. It seems they are not alone.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/01/...from-this-one/

Post Script: Marvel just announced to retailers they are overshipping every single title by 10% in the month of January. Here is Marvel's announcement:

10% EXTRA FOR FREE ON MARVEL UNIVERSE JANUARY SHIPPING TITLES!
As a thank you to Retailers, Marvel will be sending an additional 10% of FREE copies for all of January shipping Marvel Universe titles! For all orders made by FOC, Marvel will be sending 10% extra at no cost to Retailers!

[penthotal]

Marvel totally dominated the market for the last several years. Now after three months it's selling a bit less than usual (concurrently to a line wide relaunch if their main competitor) it seems it's doomed, it's ruining the market and so on. When I read this sort of opinions from reader I am surprised people is so immature and prone to useless conflicts. But when retailers do the same (supposedly adult entrepeneurs) I understand why Marvel (and other smart publisher like Image) are looking to widen their readership OUTSIDE the direct market. 10 years from now, comic shops won't exist anymore, except for the rare ones who are / will be able to diversify their offer / clients (ie. sell other comics outside of super hero, be inclusive to women and children, sell collections and not only floppy, have an event / café area and so on) like independent bookshops did in the last years.

[lordozone]

I don't know what to think. I hope that it's true because I don't like at all the direction of the Marvel Comics since the end of Secret Wars, and I hope that bad sales will make them think about their direction (I talk about the marvel line, there is 2 or 3 marvel comics that I like actually), but when you see the sales, they still are the number one.
But I hope that it's true and that Marvel will begin to be less antagonist to the old fans, and begin to hire better writers, not only writers who are loved by Tumblr. When I see the first new She-Hulk for example, I have hope: even if I don't like the direction, it's written by a real competent new writer, for once. But when I see books like The new Wasp (a character that I found cool in Avengers) I'm not reassured.

[DV1Band]

Marvel totally dominated the market for the last several years. Now after three months it's selling a bit less than usual (concurrently to a line wide relaunch if their main competitor) it seems it's doomed, it's ruining the market and so on. When I read this sort of opinions from reader I am surprised people is so immature and prone to useless conflicts. But when retailers do the same (supposedly adult entrepeneurs) I understand why Marvel (and other smart publisher like Image) are looking to widen their readership OUTSIDE the direct market. 10 years from now, comic shops won't exist anymore, except for the rare ones who are / will be able to diversify their offer / clients (ie. sell other comics outside of super hero, be inclusive to women and children, sell collections and not only floppy, have an event / café area and so on) like independent bookshops did in the last years.

I wouldn't say that they dominated the market. It's not that after only three months, things aren't selling. This began when Marvel started pandering to Tumblr and the social justice crowd. There's also not much need to compare it to DC's relaunch, because Marvel's still in the process of even figuring out the relaunch that they're still supposed to be in the middle of. The comic shop owners aren't creating conflicts, they're just making observations of what's currently selling in their stores, and what's not. Right now, Marvel's not selling well in those particular stores. The same thing is occurring in my lcs. Although Marvel is utilizing their film and television companies to create readership outside the direct market, eliminating the original market altogether won't help business. Looking at the fact that comics in general are still selling in the (double digit) thousands, along with the fact that there has been a market for them for over 30 years, doesn't show that comics are going anywhere. As long as there is a team willing to create, and an audience who is willing to buy out of love for their characters, the industry will continue on. There are already plenty of comics that don't contain superheroes within their plots, which are already selling very, very well. In regards to diversity: pandering to the Tumblr crowd demanding diversity regardless of how it supports the story is the reason why Marvel's not selling well right now. DC Comics has characters from all backgrounds and walks of life. However, DC is selling because their writing is organic. DC puts characters from all walks of life into stories. Marvel is creating characters solely to pander to a specific crowd, one that likely doesn't even buy their comics.

[George Ndebele]

when DC has low sales = Everything is fine

when marvel has low sales = "OMG! The whole comic industry is falling " ,marvel sucks" The world is gonna end!!!"

People relax

[brettc1]

If this is true, then it shows that DC really did listen to people's feedback about the New 52.

I agree Civil War ended as a yawn and the crossover issues did little to nothing. Spider-Woman's seemed okay but several I read that had Civil War II plastered across the cover had little more than a few panels showing tv footage about Ulyssess or some such.

Maybe Marvel needs to step back from OMG COSMIC MEGADRAMA UNIVERSE SHAKING FREAK-FEST and get back to basics. Some nice story where a villain is trying to control the world, not obliterate the multi-verse.

[TheStrongestOne]

I don't know what to think. I hope that it's true because I don't like at all the direction of the Marvel Comics since the end of Secret Wars, and I hope that bad sales will make them think about their direction

Yes, it's good news for anyone not liking Marvel' direction right now, who are seeking a change, and protesting for that change with their wallet or purse.

But when you see the sales, they still are the number one.

Don't be so sure. Marvel has been overshipping books to inflate their numbers for months now. Plus Marvel is charging more for their books, which effects statistics.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/...about-targets/

But it's not about #1. It's about is more people buying or less, regardless if your #1, 2 or 3. If your sales are on an incline, you're on the right track. Decline, not so much.

[Prof. Warren]

Marvel totally dominated the market for the last several years. Now after three months it's selling a bit less than usual (concurrently to a line wide relaunch if their main competitor) it seems it's doomed, it's ruining the market and so on. When I read this sort of opinions from reader I am surprised people is so immature and prone to useless conflicts. But when retailers do the same (supposedly adult entrepeneurs) I understand why Marvel (and other smart publisher like Image) are looking to widen their readership OUTSIDE the direct market. 10 years from now, comic shops won't exist anymore, except for the rare ones who are / will be able to diversify their offer / clients (ie. sell other comics outside of super hero, be inclusive to women and children, sell collections and not only floppy, have an event / café area and so on) like independent bookshops did in the last years.

Yeah, trying to take BC's Top Ten as an accurate gauge of the comic industry and the broader sales market is a pretty flawed move.

"Let's survey a handful of stores, most of which are located in deeply conservative states, and then act like it means something that more conservative leaning titles tend to get more Wednesday Warriors business."

A lot of fans think that their whole world and their happiness as a comic consumer depends on diversity in comics not catching on and will point to any example of it not selling like gangbusters to say "See? See?!? This proves Marvel needs to cater to US!" But that's not going to happen. Nor should it.

Diversity is the way of the future. Sorry if a comic store in, say, Georgia might not be on the forefront of that but whaddya gonna do?

And BC's Top Ten results should really note how much pricing is helping DC at the moment. But also that it's going to bite DC hard down the line. Underselling the competition is such a short term strategy that it's a pure DC move. Sooner or later, they're going to have to raise their prices back to the industry norm. It's inevitable. And when they do, there's going to be a mass exodus of readers. And if they hang on to the cheaper price, they're bleeding money. They're screwed either way.

In other words, Marvel's not sweating DC's current performance.

[lordozone]

Diversity is the way of the future. Sorry if a comic store in, say, Georgia might not be on the forefront of that but whaddya gonna do?

A lot of fan have no problem with diversity. I love Kamala, Squirel girl, Jane-Thor... the problem is the tone of their books who are very heavy-handed with their social and identity politics, and that (even if it's not totally true) a lot of people perceive that they try to destroy their old characters to impose new one. Dc at least try to develop a diverse casting without antagonizing their old fans (even if I don't like Dc Rebirth). And I think that their new writers from tumblr are weak, and writing only for liberal is not a very good strategy in the long term.

And BC's Top Ten results should really note how much pricing is helping DC at the moment. But also that it's going to bite DC hard down the line. Underselling the competition is such a short term strategy that it's a pure DC move. Sooner or later, they're going to have to raise their prices back to the industry norm. It's inevitable. And when they do, there's going to be a mass exodus of readers. And if they hang on to the cheaper price, they're bleeding money. They're screwed either way.

In other words, Marvel's not sweating DC's current performance.

Totally agree with you about this. Their model is not sustainable in the long term.

[JKtheMac]

Marvel totally dominated the market for the last several years. Now after three months it's selling a bit less than usual (concurrently to a line wide relaunch if their main competitor) it seems it's doomed, it's ruining the market and so on.

Plus Marvel are still leading the market and even during the DC relaunch blip Marvel didn't sell less. Also current predictions show overall diamond sales will probably be up year-on-year from last year when we have full data. We are all doomed!

[penthotal]

I wouldn't say that they dominated the market.

How do you call having from 40 to 55% of the market for years? Being dominated by the market?

It's not that after only three months, things aren't selling

Yes it is, Rebirth started in September, and after three months DC has already lost it's first position in both sales and dollars, Marvel it's again the number one, but for some reason this means Marvel is crashing and burning because diversity…

This began when Marvel started pandering to Tumblr and the social justice crowd. Marvel is creating characters solely to pander to a specific crowd, one that likely doesn't even buy their comics.

.

When I hear "pandering to the Tumblr crowd that doesn't buy comics" and "social justice" I really feel like doing harakiri because I lost all my faith in humanity. I would argue that this "crowd" it's what made Hawkeye and Ms Marvel Marvel best selling character in paperback both in the direct market and bookshop EVER. The same crowd that made Ms Marvel their best selling digital comics ever, the only one selling as much in digital than in print (the average for digital sale it's 10-30% of the print run). The same crowd that made Jane Foster Thor sell better than Unworthy Thor and a best seller in collections and digital. And the same that made Squirrel Girl a NY Times best seller both in paperbacks and with its recent graphic novel. And the same crowd that made for the first time a best seller of Black Panther both in floppies and collections? And another NY Times best seller? Also made Moon Girl an hit at Scholastic?

Which of your classic hero bought by classic fans has ever been as relevant and sold that well to the world at large and not to a small club of old white male guys?

[crimsonspider89]

Plus Marvel are still leading the market and even during the DC relaunch blip Marvel didn't sell less. Also current predictions show overall diamond sales will probably be up year-on-year from last year when we have full data. We are all doomed!

The price difference. Look at the unit share charts on comichron since Marvel is using overshiping to inflate the unit sold chart in there favor on diamond.

How do you call having from 40 to 55% of the market for years? Being dominated by the market?




Yes it is, Rebirth started in September, and after three months DC has already lost it's first position in both sales and dollars, Marvel it's again the number one, but for some reason this means Marvel is crashing and burning because diversity…

.

When I hear "pandering to the Tumblr crowd that doesn't buy comics" and "social justice" I really feel like doing harakiri because I lost all my faith in humanity. I would argue that this "crowd" it's what made Hawkeye and Ms Marvel Marvel best selling character in paperback both in the direct market and bookshop EVER. The same crowd that made Ms Marvel their best selling digital comics ever, the only one selling as much in digital than in print (the average for digital sale it's 10-30% of the print run). The same crowd that made Jane Foster Thor sell better than Unworthy Thor and a best seller in collections and digital. And the same that made Squirrel Girl a NY Times best seller both in paperbacks and with its recent graphic novel. And the same crowd that made for the first time a best seller of Black Panther both in floppies and collections? And another NY Times best seller? Also made Moon Girl an hit at Scholastic?

Which of your classic hero bought by classic fans has ever been as relevant and sold that well to the world at large and not to a small club of old white male guys?

Again the price difference and the OVERSHIPPING of titles. Use Comichron, they correct for that and also look at the unit dropoff for Champions and Riri and such.

The data is present.

Marvel is doing the overshipping to make it look like they are still ahead.

[Bunai]

So Marvel being inclusive of others in society is causing low sales?

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Iron Maiden]

Retail shops are only part of the picture anyway. You're not even considering digital sales, which many of the younger fans are more interested in. Plus even with Diamond, there are listings for second, third and sometimes fourth printings of comics that sell out at the stores. This happened with Secret Wars and it's still happening with some titles.

[Panfoot]

Don't worry, they'll just relaunch with a another whole new slew of #1s after the next mega even that will interrupt 80% of the books they put out. Personally I just want a good Iron Man book(and a good Doctor Strange book would be a nice bonus too) so anything that gets that happening faster is fine by me.