Legacy Characters: what makes a good one and what doesn't work?

[DDM]

*sigh* Those are not legacy characters. Same way OML is not a legacy character.

Wait, I have the perfect reponse for you.

OML is basically Wolverine just older. Also the original OML storyline is regarded very well.

Tyke is not Cyke. Not even close. In fact, most Cyke fans hate Tyke.

[SpiderClops]

Wait, I have the perfect reponse for you.

And? I still stand by my statement. Those are not legacy characters.

[DDM]

And? I still stand by my statement. Those are not legacy characters.

But I thought Tyke is not Cyke? Wouldn't that finctionally make him a legacy if the character were really so different?

[SpiderClops]

But I thought Tyke is not Cyke? Wouldn't that finctionally make him a legacy if the character were really so different?

Oh yeah, I meant it to be absolutely literal. Can't have any other meaning beside that.

[Grim Ghost]

Well it's all in the execution really. But I prefer a legacy character to have a strong connection to the original character.

Also while the legacy character doesn't need to live in the original's shadow, writers should resist the whole "The NEW Captain Space is clearly the GREATEST Captain Space that shall ever live!" because that just ends up annoying fans of the original (an original that we know in most cases will be returning at some point).

[Danileriver23]

I knew it was only a matter of time until this thread popped up. Let me get my "Legacy Character" bingo card ready. Let's see...not my Captain America...Thor is his name, not a title...Why can't they get their own books under their own name...pushing diversity...no more SWM characters...stop killing the main characters...this is why marvel is failing...it's not organic...All right let's play!

[Danileriver23]

What makes a bad legacy character: plucking their younger teenage selves out of the past and forcing them to stay here for no good reason.

...How can someone be a legacy character of themselves? if that's the case, every time a hero has some big change to themselves then they'd be a legacy character. Does that mean odinson is legacy character because hes missing an arm and is getting a new hammer?

[Nazrel]

I think there should probably be a division between a legacy character, and picking up a discarded mantle.

The former implies some form of inheritance; the latter, the character moved on to other things and left an empty space for someone to fill, and has a far less exacting criteria for acceptance.

[SuperiorIronman]

What makes a good legacy character work to me is the transitioning. A legacy is created when events give room for an expansion of the concept or a void needs to be filled. This however cannot happen over night which is why legacy characters typically have longer origin stories or are the result of a relationship to the former. Character development is key and is imperative in the modern day as you can't just put a product on the market anymore as crowded as it is. The older heroes got away with this by just having enough in an age where that was all that was needed. These characters also have the benefit of decades of stories to flesh them out so a legacy has to establish itself in a way that stands on it's own and in a narrative makes sense.

The reason Riri didn't work was because Riri just took over after not even having enough backstory to fill a single book. She may become Iron heart but she is benefiting from an Iron man motif and branding and as such is basically a current Iron man. She doesn't work because the reader has no choice but to accept this instead of easing us into the transition with more interactions with Tony Stark, or building up to the Iron man motif. As such it's just here and of all people we have to accept Tony just chose her to be the new Iron man.

Compare this to Victor von Doom whom while an established character, he played a role in the Iron man books and had an existing history with Stark. Doom was established as being able to build armors and was a supporting cast member leading up to him becoming Iron man. It's irrelevant how much backstory he has compared to Riri, as what matters is how much he needs for the readership to find it believable he could take on the role. Even before Infamous Iron man #3 it was already believable that Doom could do something like this so you didn't need to jump through as many hoops to reach the legacy role.

[DDM]

Oh yeah, I meant it to be absolutely literal. Can't have any other meaning beside that.

Sorry for assuming you mean what you say. I'll be sure not make that mistake again.

...How can someone be a legacy character of themselves? if that's the case, every time a hero has some big change to themselves then they'd be a legacy character. Does that mean odinson is legacy character because hes missing an arm and is getting a new hammer?

Well, functionally young Cyclops is a different character using the same mantle and not the current 616 Cyclops after character growth or change (unlike Odinson). He's serving the same general purpose a legacy character would even though he's technically a past version of himself. Yes it's needlessly confusing, yes no one seems to like it, but here we are anyway.

Also technically AU characters aren't the same character, so who knows how adamantly they'll keep trying to maintain the teen O5 as being 616 locked and not divergent at this point? If we get a timeline split then young Cyclops won't even be 616/Prime Cyclops anymore either.

[theoneandonly]

always be deferential to the original
wonder a hundred times how your predecessor would have handled it
Whine when people don't accept you and brood over your insecurities and fears that you can never measure up.
Wear matching uniform or his colours
always be ready to team up with other heroes and your predecessor so you can have their perspectives
Get your own villain gallery or adopt predecessors to the extent that they forget the previous guy.
show that though you respect the legacy you do things your own way.

[Danileriver23]

Sorry for assuming you mean what you say. I'll be sure not make that mistake again.


Well, functionally young Cyclops is a different character using the same mantle and not the current 616 Cyclops after character growth or change (unlike Odinson). He's serving the same general purpose a legacy character would even though he's technically a past version of himself. Yes it's needlessly confusing, yes no one seems to like it, but here we are anyway.

Also technically AU characters aren't the same character, so who knows how adamantly they'll keep trying to maintain the teen O5 as being 616 locked and not divergent at this point? If we get a timeline split then young Cyclops won't even be 616/Prime Cyclops anymore either.

Well, functionally young Cyclops is a different character using the same mantle and not the current 616 Cyclops after character growth or change (unlike Odinson).

So, again, thor gets a new hammer, fundamentally he has grown and changed and is NOT the same character he was before he lost the hammer, so again, according to your logic he would be a legacy character..which he is not. and neither is Cyclops. You cant pass a legacy onto yourself from the past, that's not how that works.

[Zero Hunter]

Legacy characters work best when the original is not around anymore or is not using that name anymore. Characters like Ant-Man or Ms. Marvel are good because they picked up the unused name and mantle. On the other side you have the bad thing of just slapping the name on a new character while the other is still around or is coming back soon like Captain America or Thor. Bucky Cap worked because Cap was not around. Falcon Cap doesn't work because Cap is still very much in the picture. When you have multiple characters running around with the same name that just comes off as a cash grab gimick.

[SuperiorIronman]

Legacy characters work best when the original is not around anymore or is not using that name anymore. Characters like Ant-Man or Ms. Marvel are good because they picked up the unused name and mantle. On the other side you have the bad thing of just slapping the name on a new character while the other is still around or is coming back soon like Captain America or Thor. Bucky Cap worked because Cap was not around. Falcon Cap doesn't work because Cap is still very much in the picture. When you have multiple characters running around with the same name that just comes off as a cash grab gimick.

FalCap happened when Steve wasn't capable of duty right? I think in the case of Falcon becoming Captain America it does work because from the very start the intention was always to have more than one super-solider. In this case with being one of many it still fits the themes and definitely plays into the "Captain" aspect of the character in that they are leaders in one form or another. That being said I don't know what you would call a "Captain America" that outranks another but it fits into the idea of Captain America regardless in that it was never intended in-universe to have only one. This even plays into the multiple kinds of military forces present in a given country with Sam in a sense being the Air force equivalent where Steve could be seen more like the army.

In Thor I could see where names could be seen as derivative but in the case of Captain America I find that I'm able to defend something like that.

[DDM]

Well, functionally young Cyclops is a different character using the same mantle and not the current 616 Cyclops after character growth or change (unlike Odinson).

So, again, thor gets a new hammer, fundamentally he has grown and changed and is NOT the same character he was before he lost the hammer, so again, according to your logic he would be a legacy character..which he is not. and neither is Cyclops. You cant pass a legacy onto yourself from the past, that's not how that works.

Your logic doesn't hold water because your example isn't really comparable. Character growth isn't equivalent to taking an earlier iteration of a character and reinserting them alongside the current one. Young Cyclops and Cyclops are becoming something more like Cable and X-Man than your Thor and Odinson example.