How is the Joker still alive?

[thales]

So, I'm looking at the list of "16 Worst Things (the writers have had) the Joker has ever done", and I can't stop thinking, in-story, why is that guy still alive? Why doesn't Jason Todd kill him, or Wild Dog or any of those other vigilanties that kill. Why doesn't Maxwell Lord or Luthor kill him? Or the Spectre? Or any of the Gotham mobsters? Why does Batman leave him alive?

[millernumber1]

So, I'm looking at the list of "16 Worst Things (the writers have had) the Joker has ever done", and I can't stop thinking, in-story, why is that guy still alive? Why doesn't Jason Todd kill him, or Wild Dog or any of those other vigilanties that kill. Why doesn't Maxwell Lord or Luthor kill him? Or the Spectre? Or any of the Gotham mobsters? Why does Batman leave him alive?

The one that really infuriates me is when Maggie blasts him with a full mag in Gotham Central, and he doesn't die. C'mon, there's no one in the world who would convict a cop who killed the Joker.

[thales]

The one that really infuriates me is when Maggie blasts him with a full mag in Gotham Central, and he doesn't die. C'mon, there's no one in the world who would convict a cop who killed the Joker.

Even if he initially survived, what paramedic would try to save him? What cop on the premises would let the paramedic try?

And Gordon. Joker has paralyzed your daughter. Killed your wife, and you shoot him in the leg?

[millernumber1]

Even if he initially survived, what paramedic would try to save him? What cop on the premises would let the paramedic try?

And Gordon. Joker has paralyzed your daughter. Killed your wife, and you shoot him in the leg?

Yeah. I really hate how writers put people into situations that editorial won't let them play out in a believable way.

I mean, Joker just shot up a police station. Why wouldn't an EMT just say, "Hey, I have a DOA here," instead of hooking him up to anything? In real life, I mean?

[Buried Alien]

Might as well give the Joker a Wolverine-like healing factor (though not as potent), for all that he has seemingly survived.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Frontier]

I think people are just resigned to the fact that no matter what anyone does, the Joker just will not die .

[electr1cgoblin]

Nice thread. I guess the natural extension of it might be "Is it time for the Joker to die, for good?" Seriously, are there any Joker stories left to tell? We're never going to know his definitive origin, they've played out his relationship to Batman countless times, he's done just about every evil deed imaginable. What's left? How about one last Joker story where he attempts some heinous catastrophe and really gets killed as a result?

I'm not in favor of wasting good villains, and I know he's iconic, but at this point, what more can they do with him?

[JBatmanFan05]

what more can they do with him?

Tell more classic top selling stories with talented writers and artists.

I really don't agree with comic realists, asking for Joker or Lex to die or for physics to followed in comics goes too far. Comics are a serial fictional medium and top shelf iconic serial villains stay alive and always should.

If writers or readers want to read Joker being killed, I say write an Elseword or non-main-continuity title for it.

Batman is not a killer & he has some lingering hope in the flawed system and fate or luck saves Joker from killing heroes and other means of death. He's a bad penny that just won't go away, like evil doesn't.

[Frontier]

Is there any point to really killing The Joker when pretty much everybody can guess he'll just come back no worse for wear sooner rather then later? Beyond, I guess, some form of catharsis in seeing him finally get put down.

But it would never be permanent.

[electr1cgoblin]

Tell more classic top selling stories with talented writers and artists.

I really don't agree with comic realists, asking for Joker or Lex to die or for physics to followed in comics goes too far. Comics are a serial fictional medium and top shelf iconic serial villains stay alive and always should.

If writers or readers want to read Joker being killed, I say write an Elseword or non-main-continuity title for it.

Batman is not a killer & he has some lingering hope in the flawed system and fate or luck saves Joker from killing heroes and other means of death. He's a bad penny that just won't go away, like evil doesn't.

Well, let me be clear; I don't want Batman to kill him or anyone else. There are other ways for him to die; someone else could kill him, a vigilante, another villain, etc. Or he could die accidentally or by his own hand. And I get the idea that he's a "top shelf iconic serial villain". I just think that at some point every character's potential for good stories becomes exhausted if they are overused. And the Joker is overused.

[JBatmanFan05]

And the Joker is overused.

Yea, but I would say that's a better claim/opinion raised separately. And you certainly don't need to kill Joker to remedy that, editorial (and writers) determine who gets used and who doesn't.

[Nite-Wing]

I think putting the Joker in situations where he's near death is a cliche now
People say its a conclusion of him being overused but all the stuff with Batman's other rogue's is always commit a crime, end up in arkham. With Joker that has stopped happening for some reason.
Instead
He regularly falls to his death
gets blow up
run over
buried alive
Cut his own face off and survived the infection
etc
No body is every found when this happens leading you to believe he survived these things.

He always comes back from it
In Morrison's run he got shot in the head point blank by a police officer that only made him crazier and more violent.
What can you do to the character that hasn't already been tried.

You can't kill pure evil and that seems to be the understanding with the Joker and all villains
If heroes start just killing them off then there's no need to have serial fiction anymore you have created an ending

[thales]

Tell more classic top selling stories with talented writers and artists.

I really don't agree with comic realists, asking for Joker or Lex to die or for physics to followed in comics goes too far. Comics are a serial fictional medium and top shelf iconic serial villains stay alive and always should.

If writers or readers want to read Joker being killed, I say write an Elseword or non-main-continuity title for it.

Batman is not a killer & he has some lingering hope in the flawed system and fate or luck saves Joker from killing heroes and other means of death. He's a bad penny that just won't go away, like evil doesn't.

Has there been a classic Joker story in the last couple of decades or has each and every "talented" writer tried to surpass their predecessor by upping the ante of what the Joker will do? "Oh, you had the Joker kill an infant? Well, I had him blow up a bus of school children."

I would argue that in a serial fictional setting, you can't let someone like the Joker becoming a massmurderer like he has become without destroying the character.

I still don't know why Jason Todd is letting the Joker run around...

[electr1cgoblin]

Yea, but I would say that's a better claim/opinion raised separately. And you certainly don't need to kill Joker to remedy that, editorial (and writers) determine who gets used and who doesn't.

A five year moratorium on Joker stories would convince me to let him live. Sound fair?

[JBatmanFan05]

A five year moratorium on Joker stories would convince me to let him live. Sound fair?

I'm not sure I agree with such a moratorium, that might be too rigid given characters can have small appearances and etc, I more just think fans should just accept that Joker is a big commercial property that's going to be used in good stories and bad because he's so valuable and more fans than not want to read stories with him (at least that's what sales must indicate to DC), but that's definitely a more sensible approach to address the issue of overuse.

Given that a particular title only comes out once a month and that we live in an increasingly instant gratification culture, I think the pauses between significant Joker stories have been ok, or consistent enough with the past. And I think writers play a big role in deciding if Joker will get used in a run, Morrison and Snyder wanted to use him clearly. Remains to be seen if King does. I think DC is more gonna consider the writers' opinion given they always seem to win financially if Joker is used.