Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Series from Peter David and Mark Bagley

[boots]

I could describe Ben in several ways but "baggage-free" would never be one of them. If I recall a certain Dematteis, Ben`s strenght was that even though his emotional baggage was darker than Peter`s, he seemed to have a bigger will or outlook. I think that came across well in his writting of the character.

Spider-Verse Ben actually looked baggage-free in comparison but mostly because he happened to be someone, who unlike Peter, managed to always come out on top on the same events that brought Peter down, more cleanly or decisively so. His superpower among the Spidermen in that crossover was pretty much his unshackable optimism. The Spiderman that beat all the odds on his own and was living the idealized life. But it should be noted that a) that was an appearance in one event and b) while Dematteis and co did write him as more optimistic in nature than Peter, he wasn`t baggage-free in the slighest.

pretty much agree with everything you've written here, BUT vworp vworp does have a point too. ben was positioned as the spider-man with a clean slate. i feel like he was meant to have had his own baggage, but he would deal with it and move on from it in a more decisive way than peter could with his own.

with that and all the varied writers (and changes in direction) of the 90s saga, there were a couple different bens that were depicted. so i think both takes are valid.

i'd reconcile it all by saying that both peter and ben had baggage, just that ben had less and the absolute joy of becoming spider-man again and "coming home" helped him heal much faster than peter who had more or less been "holding down the fort".

i feel like that the ben we saw in spider-verse was a fully healed spider-man (who is really also an example of who peter can become).

[Aioros22]

I can see what you both mean. Maybe I`m looking too much at Ben as Scarlet Spider instead of afterwards he was awarded with the suit and the name he always tried to escape from.

[classicgmer]

Yep.


Ugh.

Everything Ben wasn't is encapsulated in that description. Heck, that was the part of the point of him initially, to be the 'baggage-free' Spidey. Now he's basically all baggage - a character who's personality has changed so utterly as to being that character in little more than name only.

I am now off the fence. And out.

Yep. I know there are plenty of people who've expressed excitement about this but personally i don't see too many reasons to be excited about this beyond the fact they brought him back. I guess we're suppose to be grateful about his return no matter what the circumstances are or how much they've changed him

[LOSTie-chan]

:I <== Ben's face on that cover.

Might be getting this. Depends on Kaine's role in the series.

[boots]

Yep. I know there are plenty of people who've expressed excitement about this but personally i don't see too many reasons to be excited about this beyond the fact they brought him back. I guess we're suppose to be grateful about his return no matter what the circumstances are or how much they've changed him

i honestly don't get this attitude. do people really think that pad and bagley won't be putting 100% in? that they aren't genuinely excited by their take on ben reilly and the direction they want to go with the character? being a creative is different to a lot of jobs, because a lot of your self respect goes into your own work. you hold yourself to your own standards.

more than that, marvel want this book to succeed. they want it to sell. the idea that throwing fans the scraps and saying "they won't notice lols" says they don't respect their own output or audience.

[classicgmer]

i honestly don't get this attitude. do people really think that pad and bagley won't be putting 100% in? that they aren't genuinely excited by their take on ben reilly and the direction they want to go with the character? being a creative is different to a lot of jobs, because a lot of your self respect goes into your own work. you hold yourself to your own standards.

more than that, marvel want this book to succeed. they want it to sell. the idea that throwing fans the scraps and saying "they won't notice lols" says they don't respect their own output or audience.

I think they'll do the absolute best they can but the direction for the character is still ultimately Slott's brainchild that was handed off to somebody else. As i stated earlier they can write and draw the hell out of it to the best of their ability but to me it's still a weak concept so the ceiling for how good it can be only goes so high.


and yes i very much feel Marvel is telling me that this is the Ben Reilly you're getting so take it or leave it.

[boots]

I think they'll do the absolute best they can but the direction for the character is still ultimately Slott's brainchild that was handed off to somebody else. As i stated earlier they can write and draw the hell out of it to the best of their ability but to me it's still a weak concept so the ceiling for how good it can be only goes so high.


and yes i very much feel Marvel is telling me that this is the Ben Reilly you're getting so take it or leave it.

ah, that evil slott. crapping on fans while slapping them in the face. and now he's forcing fellow creators to work on concepts they don't want to. probably stopping them from being paid too.

essentially every comic is take it or leave it, they aren't choose your own adventure.

[Spiderfang]

My only gripe so far is the mask of the costume...way too creepy, aside from that I am excited for Ben to return to the hero front.

[Pav]

I think they'll do the absolute best they can but the direction for the character is still ultimately Slott's brainchild that was handed off to somebody else.

Do you know that as a fact?

I can imagine a scenario in which, once the decision to bring back Ben was made by Slott and the editors, they also knew that he would be getting a spinoff and therefore they might've very quickly brought PAD into the fold to share his opinions on how to go about re-introducing the character.

I think fans need to realize that they don't really understand what actually goes on behind the scenes amongst the creators and editors.

As i stated earlier they can write and draw the hell out of it to the best of their ability but to me it's still a weak concept so the ceiling for how good it can be only goes so high.

What about "the concept" is weak to you? What is "the concept" anyway?

I certainly know what it feels like to not be enamored with the reintroduction of a favorite character, but to write it off before reading even a single issue just seems foolhardy. Don't make up your mind before getting all the evidence, y'know?

and yes i very much feel Marvel is telling me that this is the Ben Reilly you're getting so take it or leave it.

I don't understand why anyone would feel antagonism from Marvel. It just doesn't make any sense.

-Pav, who only felt antagonized once and that was when Byrne - not Marvel; just Byrne - passive-aggressively waved away the 5th Green Goblin...

[boots]

-Pav, who only felt antagonized once and that was when Byrne - not Marvel; just Byrne - passive-aggressively waved away the 5th Green Goblin...

on that note, i did feel somewhat let down by ben's death, or more, the way they depicted it. though i don't feel for a second marvel were being intentionally antagonistic, it was more a sense of abandonment (which it was, though of a direction not of me. or maybe it was. i am really, really important)

[Pav]

on that note, i did feel somewhat let down by ben's death, or more, the way they depicted it. though i don't feel for a second marvel were being intentionally antagonistic, it was more a sense of abandonment (which it was, though of a direction not of me. or maybe it was. i am really, really important)

I've always said so. I tell everyone, "My internet pal boots? Man. Important guy."

But yeah: they really nailed home Ben's "NOT THE REAL PETER!" status into our brains with his death, didn't they?

-Pav, who never got a chance to read the TPB with the extra scenes...

[boots]

I've always said so. I tell everyone, "My internet pal boots? Man. Important guy."

But yeah: they really nailed home Ben's "NOT THE REAL PETER!" status into our brains with his death, didn't they?

-Pav, who never got a chance to read the TPB with the extra scenes...

yeppp. from the goblin talking about how beating ben is meaningless, to ben being beaten off page, his costume torn to shreds (hmm symbolic?), not actually being involved with defeating the goblin and....being dropped off the side of a building into a car. oh, and the dust thing.

this guy is NOT spidey kids. ha.

compare and contrast to when peter bowed out of the comic for ben to take over. very different approach.

[Metamorphosis]

ah, that evil slott. crapping on fans while slapping them in the face. and now he's forcing fellow creators to work on concepts they don't want to. probably stopping them from being paid too.

essentially every comic is take it or leave it, they aren't choose your own adventure.

Yeah, god forbid someone not like something thought up by Slott on here. Way to put words in the poster's mouth as well.

[boots]

it's ok, i don't mind explaining:

hate on slott's or whoever's work all you like. but to posit he or marvel or any creator is creating work from the mindset of "be grateful no matter what i do" is just intellectually dishonest or crushingly naive.

*snipped in respect to cd's edit*

[rckstr1253]

I don't know if this will happen but I am hoping the "Ben Reilly" jackal, Peter is interacting with turns out to be Spidercide and when Peter is in trouble, out of the shadows comes web swinging Ben Reilly to save Peter and stop Spidercides evil plans. That would be a great reason for the Spidercide-ish of the new Ben Reilly costume on that cover. Maybe its a red herring?