Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Series from Peter David and Mark Bagley

[SpideyClone]

I don't know. I think part of Ben Reilly's charm was how people (mostly Peter) always ragged on how bad his Scarlet Spider costume looked (even though it was cool). This new costume just continues that tradition.

[Huntsman Spider]

yeah, i remember we discussed how we both came up with similar ideas for ben's return. i had an amnesiac spidercide return thinking he was ben. it was the only fan fic i've ever written, it used be hosted on a ben reilly fan page, which i think shut down since.

considering all the elements and dangling threads from the 90s saga, it seems like a fairly natural idea

That was you, man? Awesome! I loved that fic back in the day, and I thought it'd be a perfectly plausible way to f*** with Ben Reilly fans' minds about bringing Ben back. And yes, the costume will take some getting used to, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Hey, might as well complete the Spider-Clone trifecta and bring in "Spidercide 2.0" like Chris Yost promised in the Superior Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider team-up.

[boots]

Ah, yes. The amnesiac Spidercide idea was a cool one!

What do you think is going on with Ben in Clone Conspiracy, boots? If this is somehow both Ben and Spidercide, what exactly is the situation?

-Pav, who can't wait to find out what the deal is...

i really don't know to be honest, which is kinda good. BUT, i feel like a spidercide/ben hybrid is needlessly convoluted (same reason i never really darkdevil). if it does go down the spidercide route, i hope it eventually deals with spidercide himself as a character and his sins. i personally feel a peter parker who has been forced to commit the acts he has, wouldn't be able to live with himself.

[boots]

That was you, man? Awesome! I loved that fic back in the day, and I thought it'd be a perfectly plausible way to f*** with Ben Reilly fans' minds about bringing Ben back. And yes, the costume will take some getting used to, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Hey, might as well complete the Spider-Clone trifecta and bring in "Spidercide 2.0" like Chris Yost promised in the Superior Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider team-up.

wow. i'm flattered you remember! my first foray into creative writing outside of a class environment (i'm lucky enough to be doing it professionally now). i've lost my copy of it (i think it was on floppy disk ha) it was so long ago. i think all us old school reilly fans needed some way to cope back then. do you remember the website is was on? i think i also posted it on alvaro's boards at the time...

i'm not opposed to spidercide coming back, i think there's a lot of interesting stuff that can be done with him i just don't know about his long term potential as a protagonist.

[Hypestyle]

I'd have a better time wrapping my head around the Ben/Kaine concepts if they were created to not have the same memory or appearance. As it stands, they have original Peter's same exact memories up until the point of their "clone birth"/divergence, and then what? I don't see them as having any kind of truly distinct personalities. Just "vaguely different Pete" (Ben) and "used to be evil/twisted but now less so" (Kaine). And when it comes to their "connections" felt to everyone in original Peter's life, they didn't earn those memories or experiences at all. I wouldn't see them as 'brothers'-- more like 'thieves'. All the stuff about Ben "dying" multiple times in a row... and now he's "just fine" (or not, we'll see)... it kind of cheapens death (even comics death) in its own way.. At least with Kon-El there's no conceit of him ever thinking he was Clark. The Weapon X program became a convenient way to spit out random "bada$$" mutant characters, with heavily mixed results.. The venom symbiote was treated in the same way (how many of those characters are still floating around?)
Now with "clone revivals" I guess there will be a dozen or so more in the near future.. I just hope they don't go questioning Peter's "original" nature all over again... and please no baby May subplots..

[jyamen]

he looks like a gd muppet

[boots]

I'd have a better time wrapping my head around the Ben/Kaine concepts if they were created to not have the same memory or appearance. As it stands, they have original Peter's same exact memories up until the point of their "clone birth"/divergence, and then what? I don't see them as having any kind of truly distinct personalities. Just "vaguely different Pete" (Ben) and "used to be evil/twisted but now less so" (Kaine). And when it comes to their "connections" felt to everyone in original Peter's life, they didn't earn those memories or experiences at all. I wouldn't see them as 'brothers'-- more like 'thieves'. All the stuff about Ben "dying" multiple times in a row... and now he's "just fine" (or not, we'll see)... it kind of cheapens death (even comics death) in its own way.. At least with Kon-El there's no conceit of him ever thinking he was Clark. The Weapon X program became a convenient way to spit out random "bada$$" mutant characters, with heavily mixed results.. The venom symbiote was treated in the same way (how many of those characters are still floating around?)
Now with "clone revivals" I guess there will be a dozen or so more in the near future.. I just hope they don't go questioning Peter's "original" nature all over again... and please no baby May subplots..

kaine doesn't have peter's memories, though.

as for memories being earned- postmodern thought explores the idea that everything is text and if everything is text, then someone with the "same text"in their head is the same. your experiences don't exist as anything else but "text" in your mind. even as you experience them, it's filtered and stored as text. "blade runner" is a good exploration of those ideas.

the 90s saga explored the idea that ben was a thief as you say, and after all the interchanging of ben as clone/peter as clone ben as original/peter as original they realised that they both had equal claim to those memories, even if they had distinct futures.

[Bossace]

I wonder if Ben is going blonde again? With Parker industries now a world wide company and how his face is more common as the guy who's body guard is Spider-man, i wonder if people will recognize Kaine and Ben's face with the line, you look JUST like that Peter Parker guy.

[SuperiorIronman]

To be fair, Kaine looks very little like Peter given that he sounds slightly different than Peter, is taller, far more muscular given his lifestyle, and even his face is slightly different given stress and environmental factors. As well as it's not uncommon for someone to look like someone else. With as many genetic variations as there are Kaine could easily get away with being in the same room as Peter.

I'm curious about Ben however. He would physically look younger than Peter, but the age gap wouldn't be that large and Ben seems to have been taking better care of himself than Kaine would.

[Pav]

Ooh.

I'd also like to point out that, per the interview with PAD and Bags, Kaine will be tracking Ben; and that this mirrors the relationship they had in the past according to, among other comics, JMD's Lost Years.

The relationship between Ben and Kaine is what I'm most excited to see, I think.

It's always only a matter of time, isn't it Clone Saga fans?

-Pav, who will officially get back to actively wishing for more Ben Reilly / Phil Urich team-ups...

[David_99]

To be fair, Kaine looks very little like Peter given that he sounds slightly different than Peter, is taller, far more muscular given his lifestyle, and even his face is slightly different given stress and environmental factors. As well as it's not uncommon for someone to look like someone else. With as many genetic variations as there are Kaine could easily get away with being in the same room as Peter.

I'm curious about Ben however. He would physically look younger than Peter, but the age gap wouldn't be that large and Ben seems to have been taking better care of himself than Kaine would.

It kind of bugged me how often Kaine would die and come back, only to still "just be a larger clone of Peter". I wish they had put more emphasis on changes with each of his rebirths. It just seemed to go back to square one, with or without the degeneration. I would have liked for him to become more of his own man, in a physical sense. Even altered facial features and fingerprints. I also thought the whole "Other" story was wasted on him. Wouldn't it have been more powerful for his "Other" to be a separate entity that closely resembled evil 90's Kaine? Give him an arch enemy as an evil reflection of himself?

[Sardorim]

Looks sorta like the USM thing.. He looks young and why does he have a Spider-Gwen hood?

[nitake92]

I think everyone else has already stated the Spidercide. similarity.... so I'm not going to touch on that.

I DO like Ben in the 90's since he was the 2nd Spiderman, or a "partner" to Peter when they teamed up... but the Ben coming out of Clone Conspiracy might as well BE a new character...

With so many Spider people running around, the hook would probably need to be their personality since their power are basically alike (save for a few bell and whistle like Venom touch, Venom Blast,fangs, claws, whatever) and I'm pretty sure they'll ramp up the angst factor for Ben here which might not be what I'm looking for in a Ben Reilley book.

It's going to be a wait and see for me... though with PAD on this book, I'm guessing Spiderman 2099 is endng and Miguel is going home?

[David_99]

I just made this yesterday. I miss this costume.

[Frontier]

I just made this yesterday. I miss this costume.

Well, it's not like Mayday is using it anymore exactly...