Marvel's LEGION TV show by FX

[Theleviathan]

I mean he only directed 3 episodes out of the total 27, and a lot of people took part in the writing chores.

He had full creative control though right?

[Ozymandias]

He had full creative control though right?

Right, he had the reins, he just didn't take them all the time.

[Theleviathan]

Right, he had the reins, he just didn't take them all the time.

Im not sure letting other people direct is a big deal. The story was his and after a brilliant first season it went south hard.

[Ozymandias]

Im not sure letting other people direct is a big deal. The story was his and after a brilliant first season it went south hard.

The best episode for me, was the first one, which he directed. As for the story being his, if many writers are involved, you can't truly say that.

[Theleviathan]

The best episode for me, was the first one, which he directed. As for the story being his, if many writers are involved, you can't truly say that.

Many writers were involved in Season 1 and in every TV show, I'm not sure that is a distinction with any difference.

[Rivka]

He had full creative control though right?

He was executive producer, creator, but of course others participated in the directing and writing. And there were other producers. He couldn't possibly do everything. Like Benioff and Weiss shared duties on GoT but they guided the direction of the final season, wrote the outlines of each episode, and any blame for failure has to fall on them. Also, Marvel had input, I'm sure. But from everything I've read, Mr. Hawley supervised and approved everything that we saw in the final product that was broadcast on FX.

He also is executive producer on the FARGO series, and guides the direction of the season, chooses the writers, directors, and creative staff, or delegates those choices to others that he has also hired. Joel and Ethan Coen own the rights to FARGO and give final approval to anything Hawley puts on the screen, but the actual day to day production of this upcoming season will be Hawley's responsibility.

Another analogy would be Vince Gilligan, who is creator and top executive producer of BREAKING BAD and BETTER CALL SAUL. He has an eclectic, democratic writer's room but keeps meticulous track of story lines, other writer's contributions, the work of the various directors and creative staff, etc. (We know this for a fact because of the A&E series "Writer's Room" which focused one episode on Gilligan's BREAKING BAD team.) But he is the creative boss of both series.

I tend to agree more and more with Theleviathan, that Season 3 descended into a mess, like Mr. Hawley's creative vision became frayed, his plot pulled in different directions. According to the article link that Theleviathan posted a few weeks ago, Hawley was more interested in FARGO, was distracted writing LEGION Season 3, thought it was a lark to write scripts by the seat of his pants without doing research, or giving the ramifications much thought. The story was already confusing with time travel innovations and timeline arabesques; as the last season was winding down he kept inserting new ideas and twists that he must have known weren't going to make sense or be resolved. New plot points and character-directions, messing with his own continuity--it seemed self-indulgent and kind of irresponsible. It's easy, given such a wonderfully creative and complex show, to throw paint against the wall and claim at the end it was all a part of the plan. Of course Hawley's ideas are brilliant, and LEGION was still amazing and one of the most unique and creative comic book/sci-fi shows on television. But Season 3 kind of fell apart. Maybe Hawley meant to be subversive--like those forced "happy" endings, time resets that had different time-travel rules for different characters, drastic u-turns in characterization, and declaring the entire series null and void due to David being raised "happily ever after" by mummy and daddy, which might even have made the creation of the X-Men null and void as well! Haha, maybe he was just giving Marvel the middle-finger salute.

[Ozymandias]

He couldn't possibly do everything.

Why not? Mark Frost and David Lynch rectified and came back, to do right by "Twin Peaks". When others choose whether to follow suit or delegate, it's their choice.

[Theleviathan]

Why not? Mark Frost and David Lynch rectified and came back, to do right by "Twin Peaks". When others choose whether to follow suit or delegate, it's their choice.

But then he delegated from the outset. It's not like he was 100% in charge of everything Season 1 and then delegated. If so, then maybe your theory would have more weight. The way the show was approached was the same from the outset, so the simplest explanation is that Hawley had a great idea for a season. Emphasis on "a". After that it became really self-indulgent and the story suffered greatly.

[Ozymandias]

But then he delegated from the outset. It's not like he was 100% in charge of everything Season 1 and then delegated.

It doesn't matter when he did. The question is he didn't give it all he had, so we'll never know how good it could've been.

[Theleviathan]

It doesn't matter when he did. The question is he didn't give it all he had, so we'll never know how good it could've been.

But that's not really feasible. No one does all the writing and directing by themselves. That's not a thing, so I'm not sure why that should matter?

[Ozymandias]

But that's not really feasible. No one does all the writing and directing by themselves. That's not a thing, so I'm not sure why that should matter?

It's not usual, but it can be done. Mr. Robot or The Knick would be examples. If miniseries would count, you could find even more there.

[Theleviathan]

It's not usual, but it can be done. Mr. Robot or The Knick would be examples. If miniseries would count, you could find even more there.

Maybe, but I guess you brought up that argument as a defense for why Legion itself dipped so hard in the second and third season. I'm not sure that justification fits since Hawley never had complete control, even when the show was brilliant.

If anything, I wish he had LESS control. I think someone with the balls to corral him a bit was necessary on this show.

[Ozymandias]

Maybe, but I guess you brought up that argument as a defense for why Legion itself dipped so hard in the second and third season. I'm not sure that justification fits since Hawley never had complete control, even when the show was brilliant.

If anything, I wish he had LESS control. I think someone with the balls to corral him a bit was necessary on this show.

I'm not defending, I was whishing.

So did he have control or not? I get confused, I thought we had that cleared at the top of the page.

The series didn't have drastic contrasts in quality. From best to worse episode, I'd say 7 to 8/10.

So you didn't like the Hawley parts? I won't try to argue to the contrary. I just don't meet you there.

[Theleviathan]

I'm not defending, I was whishing.

So did he have control or not? I get confused, I thought we had that cleared at the top of the page.

The series didn't have drastic contrasts in quality. From best to worse episode, I'd say 7 to 8/10.

So you didn't like the Hawley parts? I won't try to argue to the contrary. I just don't meet you there.

I'm not sure I agree with how you frame "control". Hawley had as much control as feasible. No show, even the ones you cited, are one person efforts. They are a mix of writing rooms, producers, etc. Insofar as we use a realistic definition of control...he had it.

I do think it was drastically lower in quality after the first season. It was still weird and visually stunning at times, but the narrative became a shitshow. And the decline was steep in the second season. At times the series popped back towards something like the first season, but by and large it was a mess.