Marvel's LEGION TV show by FX

[Killercroc357]

Now that I am rewatching the show, it reminded me about a few questions I had.

1) Who is the person at the clinic melded with the tree? I'm thinking this has to do with Mojoverse.



2) It feels like the partner in the interrogation room with David was reading his mind to validate his answers. Again, I'm leaning towards this being one of Mojo's denizens. And what was with the dog statue he left on the table in front of David?

[JKtheMac]

/tangent

I wonder what people who suffer from forms of schizophrenia would think of this episode?

I wasn't sure if schizophrenia was actually mentioned, but I wasn't listening out for it. When I was reading the recent X-Men Legacy run I was very aware of the issue as a close family member had recently had a related diagnosis. In my estimation anyone with such a diagnosis watching this would see it as fanciful fiction. The one time it hit a nerve was in the discussion about medication and normality, which is a bigger issue than they were able to handle in the episode. That felt a little trivialised. But as Syd Barrett (her name is just a little on the nose) is clearly a regular cast member maybe this will be explored properly later.

[JKtheMac]

And what was with the dog statue he left on the table in front of David?

Well if you are going to insist on Mojoverse connections, and you clearly are, then it must be a reference to Gog/Pup from the Lonshot Mini. Everyone has read that, right?

[Killercroc357]

Well if you are going to insist on Mojoverse connections, and you clearly are, then it must be a reference to Gog/Pup from the Lonshot Mini. Everyone has read that, right?

But it is so hard to ignore the cookie crumbs. In rewatching the pilot, I noticed a few things.

1) When David attempts to hang himself, isn't that the 'Mojo-like' creature walking past the door?

2) When the interrogator is questioning David, the thing he is looking down at is a high-speed tablet. But almost like a TV screen, with David's image.



3) When they show the tablet from the side, the letters 'F-R-C' are at the top left-hand corner. Could that be 'Freedom Resistance Candidate' like he is being sized up for Mojo TV casting?

Sorry, but if this isn't Mojo World, the show creators sure dropped plenty of tricky hints to lead someone down the wrong path.

[numberthirty]

On the "Mojo/Mojoverse" angle...

The creators have said that the series is not taking place in the X-Men's "616" universe. I can't help but think that would rule Mojo and that universe out.

That said, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

[Star_Jammer]

Well yes. That is pretty much the concept. Subjective reality. Just because it is all in his head doesn't mean it wont have meaningful stakes or interesting themes. But as I stated earlier, there is something about removing stories that one step further form reality that switches off most of the audience. There are not many people that love Jacob's Ladder or Pleasantville for example. (Or at least it sometimes feels like there are not many of us.)

I wasn't making a comment on whether or not the "it's all in is head" would affect my like/dislike of the show (that's due to other reasons).

I was simply making a quick guess at the season finale "shocker!" reveal. The mental hospital reminded me of the...prison...in Haller's head during Spurrier's run, and how he kept different aspects of his mind/powers locked up. In the show, Haller succeeds in locking up many (killing one) of these personalities, only to create a slew of new ones (with occasional confusion between the two sets).

That's just my take so far. Everything seemed very surreal and it feels like every stylistic choice was made for a reason (other than simply being "different"). I could be wrong. I'd probably bet money against myself that I'm wrong. But that's my first impression.

[Spiritualcramp]

The fact that its hard to differentiate in the story whether its hallucinations from David, back up Noah's statements that the writing would make you question the reality of the episodes. I loved some of the sequences like the random dance scene, when the room went red/black,and when all of those TV screens randomly appeared in his head. The show really can boast being a mind twister. I look forward to the second episode

[JKtheMac]

I wasn't making a comment on whether or not the "it's all in is head" would affect my like/dislike of the show (that's due to other reasons).

I was simply making a quick guess at the season finale "shocker!" reveal. The mental hospital reminded me of the...prison...in Haller's head during Spurrier's run, and how he kept different aspects of his mind/powers locked up. In the show, Haller succeeds in locking up many (killing one) of these personalities, only to create a slew of new ones (with occasional confusion between the two sets).

That's just my take so far. Everything seemed very surreal and it feels like every stylistic choice was made for a reason (other than simply being "different"). I could be wrong. I'd probably bet money against myself that I'm wrong. But that's my first impression.

No. I understand you were not attacking it. I was suggesting alienation techniques are a careful balance.

On rewatching the episode I actually think less is "just in his head" than it might appear anyway. I think the key is the way David's powers work in the comics and the way they talk about the incident at Clockworks. I think the comic's mind-prison is being referenced and Clockworks may reappear as an unreal place, but it was probably real apart from key characters.

I think the actual inmates were locked away behind closed walls by David. I think Lenny was real and her dialogues now will give us the most clues. As an aside it was really spooky watching it again and seeing Lenny in the mirror during the basement scene. That may also be a clue.

I think the key question isn't "is this real" but "who is real". This is perhaps going to be like an exaggerated version of Fight Club, only many more than two people will be sharing a body.

There is also a suspicion that some of the scenes we are seeing without David in, like the tracking shot from the interrogation room to the monitor station, may actually be being witnessed and twisted in David's warped remote viewing. The camera is a part of his subjective awareness. The alienation technique of glimpsing the stage hands preparing the next scene is being subtly played with, where instead we see actual characters preparing the gas and the electric chair for David. But the people on stage watching an apparent off-screen screen may just be an illusion to clue us in that not everything is real.

There is also a bit of a game with the colour grading going on. Vivid and dark red seems to be very important, as does yellow, but occasionally those colours are prevalent in less important scenes and need de-emphasising so the colour is desaturated. There may be clues in when red is allowed to be red.

[JKtheMac]

But it is so hard to ignore the cookie crumbs. In rewatching the pilot, I noticed a few things.

1) When David attempts to hang himself, isn't that the 'Mojo-like' creature walking past the door?

2) When the interrogator is questioning David, the thing he is looking down at is a high-speed tablet. But almost like a TV screen, with David's image.

3) When they show the tablet from the side, the letters 'F-R-C' are at the top left-hand corner. Could that be 'Freedom Resistance Candidate' like he is being sized up for Mojo TV casting?

Sorry, but if this isn't Mojo World, the show creators sure dropped plenty of tricky hints to lead someone down the wrong path.

Well this is a TV show, and a fan of Marvel may be tempted to include Mojo references as metatext, about the nature of entertainment and reality. That would mean the referrences are a part of the story, thematically related to the alienation we experience watching the show, and the way we are being played with, but not necessarily part of the plot.

Personally I think bringing any Mojo related stuff into the text itself would be a step too far for the show, but cineliterate non-comic readers would happily take the metatext on board without needing to know what the Mojoverse is.

For example the main reveal of The Man With The Yellow Eyes, or whatever his name is, was a reference to Eraserhead. So a viewer recognising this isn't going to think 'is that weird guy in another universe watching in?' so much as 'that's a very Lynchian technique, I wonder if the weird guy represents the devil or evil?'

Notes about the guy in the tree: he is also in the psychiatry scene sitting to the far right of Lenny. He has a dirty face when not in the tree. He is seen drinking from a coffee cup during dinner time while standing in the tree. He appears to be a genuine inmate of Clockworks. But as with anyone, he might not be. Indeed what if every powered personality of David has a distinct colour? Tree guy could be some kind of surveillance power.

P.S. Maybe this is the reason for the song "She's a Rainbow" for Syd, and maybe this is why the lady at the end is all in white.

[Drz]

Just watched the premire, this series is off to a good start.

Is Audrey Plaza a series regular or did she just have a single episode deal?

[JKtheMac]

Just watched the premire, this series is off to a good start.

Is Audrey Plaza a series regular or did she just have a single episode deal?

She is listed on IMDB as being in three, and they don't seem to have info much beyond that. I would be disaapointed if she wasn't in the whole series, she is phenomenal. Plus she gives the series comic cred from her Scott Pilgrim role.

[tkitna]

But as Syd Barrett (her name is just a little on the nose) is clearly a regular cast member maybe this will be explored properly later.

Naming her after Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd was one of the few things I liked about the show.

[JKtheMac]

Naming her after Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd was one of the few things I liked about the show.

Well that's something to hang onto surely!

[darewithpeace]

this show just keep it me thinking after watching it..

[JKtheMac]

OK grand theory potential spoilers through speculation time:

spoilers:

Syd may or may not be real (may be a telepath agent invading his head) but the important thing isn't her reality but her function in the story. 'She comes in colours' in David's head. She is Red, traditionally the first colour in the Rainbow. Her function is to allow David to access his powers. We stay with David while he hands over control to other aspects of his personality, and that happens when Syd allows or later instructs it. David walls everyone into their cells when Syd supposedly body swaps with David. If we read things literally David is being sent home on that day not Syd. It is pure illusion that he inhabits a female body because in the end he swaps back at the table outside the modernist cafe when Syd is nowhere to be seen. In the process of closing the walls, which is also an analogy for suppressing David's other personalities, David Kills his friend Lenny and she is now his conscience. Subconsciously he knows that allowing Syd to grant access to his powered personalities granted himself the power that led to her death. He is guilty but he won't quite allow himself to feel that guilt. Inner-Lenny lets him off the hook by making light of her death, saying something like 'If you will hand a newbie a bazooka what do you expect.' I suspect the guy that whittles is granting access to one of David's personalities but he appears to be real to the interrogator so something odd is going on there and maybe I am wrong. He places the dog on the table to suggest he is watching, as the interrogator asked him to do, but it seems to relate to the dog in the cage. I think David is being granted access to a surveillance power, possibly related to a shade of green. Need to check if the guy is wearing green. David may be seeing things through the dog in the cage's eyes, giving him the unconscious ability to plan his escape. Again we don't really need to worry if this guy is real or not, he may be a double agent. In the chair swimming pool scene Syd instructs David. She tells him to 'just slip down', an analogy for suppressing his personality. While he is underwater a number of people get fried to a crisp, perhaps David has redirected the electricity as a weapon. Upon emerging Syd and the other two agents take him outside where we meet a third powerful agent. Is this a power? I suspect not. I think this guy is real. He isn't a colour. David is taken to a woman dressed in white. Rainbows are white light fractured into a wide spectrum of colours of multiple hues. I think her colour is an analogy for David's sanity. She will help him unlock his power and act as a healing influence. So the colours are both an analogy for David's powers and his fractured personality.

end of spoilers

I am never confident to start debating these things without an actual spoiler tag in the header of the thread because people may be popping in to express their first thoughts and don't want extended speculation based on story analysis. if people really want to dig into this maybe we should have a speculation or spoiler thread. I have more to speculate about. That sister for one!