What origin would you give Donna Troy in Rebirth?

[Doctor Bifrost]

Must there be a Justice League?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[marhawkman]

I posted something like this over in the Titans thread in the main forum. Basically, I'd base it as much as possible on her pre-Crisis origin with elements of her first post-Crisis origin applied here and there.

Rhea would be the one Titan not imprisoned in Tartarus because Zeus loves his mommy. So she wanders off into space, and creates New Chronos. In the modern day, she rescues orphan children from 12 different worlds and imbues them with some of her power and knowledge, burying it deep within them so they can grow into it naturally (creating Titan Seeds), before returning them to their world to be raised by those best suited to bring them up. Donna is rescued from the fire and left by Rhea in a temple on Themyscira, where she is found and adopted by Hippolyta. At the age of 13 or 14, she leaves to follow her big sister in Man's World and becomes Wonder Girl. Dick helps her uncover her origins in the mortal world, and she then eventually learns of her ties to the Titans of myth, which gives her a niche in the Greek mythological world that her more famous sister doesn't deal with that much (if at all). This would allow locations like New Chronos and characters like Athyns and Sparta to be present. I would also utilize the pre-Crisis setup for Thia and the unrealized Children of the Sun to give her more impressive foes of her own.

I like it!

Ah! When I mentioned Rhea gave her the name Troia, and you said, "It made sense though. It's the sort of name I'd expect a Titan to have," I thought you meant it's the sort of name you'd expect a Titan of Myth to have, so it makes sense since it was given to her by a Titan of Myth, who considered her essentially a daughter by adoption. And I was pointing out that she currently has no connection to the Titans of Myth.

But if what you meant was it's the sort of name you'd expect a Titan (that is, a member of the Titans superhero team) to have, I'd respectfully question that. All the rest took on adult names that meant something in English, and related to their powers. Or, in Nightwing's case, his appearance, his style of superheroing (at night, on rooftops above the city), and a previous superhero he identified with. Donna got none of that.

I feel the same way about Donna getting the name Troia as I do about Garth, when he grew up and gave up his Aqualad identity, taking on the superhero name Garth-O. Except, of course, he didn't do that.

To me, Troia seems like a name - like Garth-O - that the writers pick when they're short on time and can't think of anything better. Or don't want to try.

(I say "seems" because I wasn't in the room when the decision was made. Possibly it was the result of a great deal of creative thought, and considered the clear and outstanding winner of a long list of alternatives. But that's not the way I experience it as a reader.)

I'm not mad, just very disappointed. See, when Donna got the name Troia she took on the name because, well, Rhea asked nicely, not because she was choosing something. Which, yeah, she's not the only superhero to use a moniker given to them by someone else. As someone on the Superman forum noted, at least in some versions, Superman didn't choose that name, it's something newspapers used for him because they had no idea what to call him.

Well, she's not a Titan now.

Most recent information is that she was created by a group of angry, anti-Diana Amazons (in the Finches' run, by way of Azzarello's take on the Amazons). I can't predict how that has mutated after "The Lies" and "The Truth."

Maybe it'll be revealed that they had to channel power from the enemies of the gods of Olympus? Yes, THOSE enemies.

[CRaymond]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Yeah, sorry. I was going to flesh out my topic but then I got a snowshovel thrown at me.

What I meant was, I feel like we're being forced to think that the DC universe requires the presence and supremacy of the Justice League. Each the big 5 have their own focus, and none are necessarily beholden to team chemistry the way the Titans evidently do. What if the DCU put the Titans as the top tier, and the League is regarded an old-fashioned notion as much as the Society seems to be?

Diana, Clark and Bruce can circle the wagons and call in the troops in big events that only the classic League roster can handle.

[SiegePerilous02]

Considering how sustainable and popular the League is, especially the Big 7, I don't see them ever going that route. Especially not to give Donna, Garth and Roy a boost of importance. People would just be wondering when the League is gonna come back.

The natural progression of the Titans, and the one they appeared to be on the course of during their last successful period (the 80s) was to eventually take the League's place as the main superhero team on Earth. But there just isn't any incentive for DC to get rid o the League, and the fanbases of the bigger characters in its roster especially have no desire to get rid of them. The reason they haven't been regarded as old fashioned as the JSA is because they have yet to go out of style. Helps that they are not tied to WWII like the JSA is and that makes them more timeless and adaptable.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Yeah, sorry. I was going to flesh out my topic but then I got a snowshovel thrown at me.

What I meant was, I feel like we're being forced to think that the DC universe requires the presence and supremacy of the Justice League. Each the big 5 have their own focus, and none are necessarily beholden to team chemistry the way the Titans evidently do. What if the DCU put the Titans as the top tier, and the League is regarded an old-fashioned notion as much as the Society seems to be?

Diana, Clark and Bruce can circle the wagons and call in the troops in big events that only the classic League roster can handle.

I think the Justice League will always (rather, for the foreseeable future) be the biggest and most important team when viewed from the outside - from a publishing standpoint. And that will result in DC keeping them the most powerful and "important" team within the DCU.

But that doesn't mean that other teams, or other superheroes, have to act like they are minor children dealing with their parents, or that the League has some sort of legitimate or official authority over them. Other than "might makes right," which should reflect poorly on the League.

And in this specific instance, the Titans handled things about as well as most superheroes, including the League, do. Better, I think, than Batman's JLA does.

And it seems practically insane to me that the League would put Donna under house arrest because there was an evil future version of her, or because "she might be even more powerful some day" - and yet put up with the fact that Batman invited Lobo (a remorseless genocidal murderer) to be in the JLA! Lobo has already committed his horrific crimes in the current day, not in some "possible future" - but he's the Main Man, and really, y'know, badass and cool, so who cares?

I think the Titans should have said: "We handled the threat. Donna didn't do anything wrong, and there's no proof that she will - we've all seen evil versions of our friends from the future, haven't we? We can help her deal with her doubts without locking her up, and, if Wonder Woman decides she wants to help - rather than withholding information and treating Donna with disgust and contempt, as she has done before - then that's a nice offer, and maybe Donna will take her up on it. But this is our problem and we'll deal with it."

You know, like grown-ups.

[marhawkman]

And in this specific instance, the Titans handled things about as well as most superheroes, including the League, do. Better, I think, than Batman's JLA does.

And it seems practically insane to me that the League would put Donna under house arrest because there was an evil future version of her, or because "she might be even more powerful some day" - and yet put up with the fact that Batman invited Lobo (a remorseless genocidal murderer) to be in the JLA! Lobo has already committed his horrific crimes in the current day, not in some "possible future" - but he's the Main Man, and really, y'know, badass and cool, so who cares?

Batman is a lunatic. I mean really, that's the core issue right there.

[Zainu]

Give her a new origin. Have her born from a star that fell unto Themyscira.

[MajorHoy]

Give her a new origin.

Number . . what, five in the series?
Collect them all!

[marhawkman]

I like the Titan seed origin best myself. It's unique, and has a very good reason to make her powerful enough to take on Wonder Woman in a fist fight.

[Jim Kelly]

I think whatever you do with Donna Troy, she has to have been an American teen-age girl. In the Teen Titans, there was always a difference between her and Starfire or Raven--because they were exotic women who didn't fit in with regular American culture. Whereas, Donna was the hometown girl. I can see her having had training with the Amazons as a youth, but early on in her life she has to come to America and find her home there.

[marhawkman]

Yeah, that's part of why I like the Titan seed origin. She's born and raised like a human, then one day finds out she's actually not. It doesn't change WHO she is, merely WHAT she is.

[Alan2099]

Bitten by a radioactive Amazon.

[MajorHoy]

Bitten by a radioactive Amazon.

Or she takes a cigarette break while working on an experiment with hard-water, then a bolt of lightning hits that experiment and a whole lot of other chemicals, too.

[marhawkman]

Bitten by a radioactive Amazon.

LOL!

Or she takes a cigarette break while working on an experiment with hard-water, then a bolt of lightning hits that experiment and a whole lot of other chemicals, too.

This makes me ponder... What attributes determine if a Donna Troy origin is good or bad?

For me the big two are that she grows up like a normal teen, then gets powers, and that said powers are capable of taking on someone like WW.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I like the Titan seed origin best myself. It's unique, and has a very good reason to make her powerful enough to take on Wonder Woman in a fist fight.

I prefer an origin that establishes Donna as Diana's beloved "little sister" (probably adoptive, but from an early age on) than an origin that skips that, but explains why it would be cool to see her punch Diana in the face.