What origin would you give Donna Troy in Rebirth?

[Doctor Bifrost]

Wasn't the True Wonder Girl Origin that of a Mirror clone of a Younger Diana, what's so bad about that. It's like you guys just pick and chose what you want to be cannon by who writes it. If it's someone you like it's cannon and if it's someone you don't you gleefully chuck their work in the shredder (Then set the shredder on fire).

"True"? It was something John Byrne tossed in, ignoring everything else that came before, and its no more "true" than any of the previous or subsequent versions. I never liked it because, as a general rule - and certainly for Wonder Girl - I prefer when characters have parents, an upbringing, and an actual history as people. Also it lead to the whole "Is she real? Does she have a soul?" Pinocchio argument that I found tedious and wholly inappropriate to Donna Troy. Let Wonder Girl be a real girl!

[Doctor Bifrost]

Byrne was trying to restore some pre-Crisis concepts to Wonder Woman. The mirror Wonder Girl was a way of acknowledging Wonder Girl's true origin--in the Impossible Tales. All efforts to explain how Wonder Girl could exist were retcons, pre- and post-Crisis. I'm not sure why one of these origins has any more relevance than another.

In the Impossible Tales she actually was Diana at a younger age - the actual person - not a conjured, magical duplicate.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Can't say that I ever minded Donna being derivative of Wonder Woman...the whole 'Wonder Girl' thing.

✓

As Wonder Girl, she had roughly the same costume as Wonder Woman the same accoutrements, and the same powers. Giving her an origin that disconnects her from Wonder Woman doesn't sit well with me, and I don't think it serves the character's backstory.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Perez included a detail in his Wonder Woman where infant girls, lost at sea, are brought to Themyscira by nereids. The Amazons raise them for a year or so, and then have them returned to Man's World, believing that they will (more or less subconsciously) carry the spirit of the Amazons with them.

I thought this would be a perfect set-up for an origin for Donna Troy - at first, I thought that's what it was for. Here's my origin:

And infant 2-year-old girl, who we will call Donna, is lost at sea and brought to Themyscira.She is raised by the Amazons. Diana, at this point, is about 11, and has been the only child on the island. She dotes on Donna, her "little sister." Seeing this, Hippolyta - perhaps unwisely - allows the child to stay longer than usual.

When Donna is about 4, Diana takes her on on a walk through the woods - basically, they go on a picnic. (They've done this before.) At about this time, several prisoners escape from Doom's Doorway. While the Amazons deal with the others, one slips away: Usculesp, the Titan of Mirrors, who carries a mirrored shield and wields strange mirror-related magic. (An ancient, mythological version of Sam Scudder, let us say.)

Teenage Diana comes face-to-face with Usculesp. Donna is in danger (and throws rocks!). There is a battle. Usculesp tries to absorb Diana's powers into his mirror, but the attempt is disrupted (by Diana's prowess, by Donna's rocks) and a portion of them wind up being reflected into Donna. (I could detail the mystical aspects, but they're not terribly relevant here.) Diana defeats Usculesp, just as Hippolyta and the other Amazons - having defeated the other escapees - arrive.

Hippolyta realizes that they have unfairly and unsafely kept Donna for too long. And perhaps, in Usculesp's magical mirror (much like the Wicked Witch's crystal ball), Diana saw that Donna still had a parent, or other family, waiting desperately for her in Man's World. They arrange for Donna to be returned. She remembers little of Themyscira - it's like a dream, and no one believes a 4-year-old anyway. She is raised by her family.

Her powers remain mainly (but not entirely) dormant. Ten years later, she sees Wonder Woman on TV - and recognizes Diana, or at least feels a connection. This awakens her powers. She creates a costume like Wonder Woman's and becomes a teenage superhero, Wonder Girl.

After a few months, Wonder Girl and Wonder Woman meet. Diana realizes this is Donna, and they have a great reunion. With Donna's family's permission, she takes Donna back to Themysicra to see the Amazons who had loved her so much. After that, Donna spends her summer vacations with the Amazons, being trained in their ways.

And Usculesp can become a recurring villain for Donna Troy.

***
Now, that was for a Wonder Woman whose story is closer to Perez's. With the one we may have now - and we still don't know the details, do we? - I'd make these changes:

- If Diana turns out to be hundreds of years old, this has to have happened hundreds of years ago. Then we need Donna's return to Man's World to include a "time slip" into the present day. There are enough mystical forces, unpredictable nereids, and other possibilities involved to explain this. In this case, Donna probably wouldn't be raised by any biological family, but by an adoptive family.
- If Diana doesn't get her powers until she journeys to Man's World, then we say that Usculesp's mirror created a mystical connection between Diana and Donna (which can show up in dreams and the like), and that when Diana gets her powers, Donna gets a share of them too. (The connection may have other effects as well.)

Maybe even John Byrne himself might be glad that I'm using a magical mirror in this story....

[Mel Dyer]

Donna as the sole survivor of a shipwreck who washes up on the shores of Themyscira and is adopted by Queen Hippolyta seems like the most straight forward and logical origin to me...Otherwise, Amazon training, purple healing ray and some magical / mystical armour and weapons should be sufficient for Donna to become a "super" hero. Her big sister leaves Themyscira and Donna feels lost. Eventually, Donna decides that it's time to return to man's world because she looks up to her sister and wants to emulate her heroism. Hippolyta is devastated at the loss of both her daughters, but agrees to allow Donna to leave Themyscira.

That's so simple a premise that you almost can't understand why anyone would deviate much from it. I like it.

I think John Byrne's revision, while very different than the 'burning building' original, could have been equally simple and classic. It amazes me that Byrne was forced to work Wolfman's Titans of Myth story, considering how thematically different it was from Byrne's newer tale, into his revision of Donna's origin story. He was - all of that business with Dark Angel and parallel worlds and timelines and stuff - and that has always been my primary problem with it.

It didn't have to be that way.

I absolutely love this. It sounds like a true Greek myth!

My version: a girl is desperate for help during a fire, so she prays in the desperate hour and a god(dess) hears (maybe Hestia?), sending her to Themyscira. She is taken with wariness at first, but the oracle of the island tells them to take the girl and raise her as an amazon, since she has a divine mission ahead...but she never forgets the home she left behind (it could even be a poor, violent neighbourhood that she wants to protect somehow). Inspired by the actions of Diana, she chooses to leave the island at 18 to fulfill her destiny in her own world: save people like her from a lost destiny.

Good point you're bringing up - what will Donna's role be in the DCU?

Will she be a local or smaller-scale Wonder Woman? Will she be the superhuman protectress of rural Oliveburn, Virginia or cosmopolitan, slightly Bohemian Silver Spring, Maryland or some other small town, near DC or London, ..or of somewhere else? Will she be the Wonder Woman of a small place, somewhere in the world - a place that Diana and her JLAers might overlook, ..but, a place, where great and small, memorable stories could be told? I think that would be MARVELOUS! I'd love to see that!

Would she have a job, and would it be glamorous or something uncelebrated and very real-world, ..like most of our jobs? Will she be an entrepreneur, ..running her own little photography studio? Would the townsfolk love her or resent her? Will she have a boyfriend ..or-rr ..a girlfriend? Would the town be bedeviled by some sinister, greedy Mr. Potter type?

Just the same, she needs a role and a familiar place for her stories to unfold. Nightwing has Bludhaven, and Supergirl has National City. Donna's loyal fans deserve a stage, where her stuff happens, unless she's going to be a brooding, unwashed loner, ..like Wolverine.

[bretmaverick2]

Wasn't the True Wonder Girl Origin that of a Mirror clone of a Younger Diana, what's so bad about that. It's like you guys just pick and chose what you want to be cannon by who writes it. If it's someone you like it's cannon and if it's someone you don't you gleefully chuck their work in the shredder (Then set the shredder on fire).

I agree with the above. While Donna's original origin worked at the time, by the time Byrne was able to redefine the world of WW, his origin worked really well for Donna. I wouldn't mind that version of Donna's origins becoming the new 'cannon' of Donna's creation.

Byrne's WW run is often maligned. I happen to think it was a very good version of Diana and her world. I am looking forward to re-reading his run when it's collected in trades later this year.

[Mel Dyer]

I agree with the above. While Donna's original origin worked at the time, by the time Byrne was able to redefine the world of WW, his origin worked really well for Donna. I wouldn't mind that version of Donna's origins becoming the new 'cannon' of Donna's creation.

Byrne's WW run is often maligned. I happen to think it was a very good version of Diana and her world. I am looking forward to re-reading his run when it's collected in trades later this year.

It was a very promising run, completely derailed by Mr. Byrne's attempt to fix Wonder Woman's messy continuity. Just look at those first few stories - the simplicity of those first few, suspenseful, action-driven stories! Now, ..imagine how great it would have been, if he'd been allowed to leave the previous origins for Donna - namely "Who Is Donna Troy?" and "Who The Hell Is Wonder Girl?" completely out of his revision. No Dark Angel. No Golden Age Wonder-Hippolyta. I think it would have been GREAT!

We've got another chance to see someone get Donna's origin, right. Fingers crossed...

[jamgut]

✓

As Wonder Girl, she had roughly the same costume as Wonder Woman the same accoutrements, and the same powers. Giving her an origin that disconnects her from Wonder Woman doesn't sit well with me, and I don't think it serves the character's backstory.

Way back in the day I liked the 'Wonder' connection between Diana and Donna, but after seeing what writers do - let's make Superman the last being from Krypton so goodbye Kara and let's change Wonder Woman's origin, so make up something for Donna - I just don't like characters like Donna or Kara getting the shaft for the sake of one of the precious Big 7.

[CRaymond]

I'm a big fan of Bifrost dissections, but I've never seen you build a bridge like that. Where did Usculesp come from?

[Jim Kelly]

Donna usually seems more sophisticated than Diana--or cosmopolitan, at least. Like she seems to fit in with American urban life, as if she's always been in cities and immersed in pop culture.

Whatever change to her origin story, it shouldn't change her essential character--it has to support her character.

[CRaymond]

My own ideas for Donna involve a mysterious divine heritage, a tenement fire in Turkey, and an immortal Diana.

BUT

I can concede to the shipwreck newborn and doting sister notion being far more simpler. It gets both girls on Themyscira, and creates a childhood and family relationship. It doesn't give her Diana's godgiven powers, so let's make them magical. Let's assume Amazons have a coven of Glindas, the same way I'm sure they have metalsmiths, farmers, fisherwomen. While Diana was always crap at magical study, little sis Donna excelled. But since physical prowess was the standard set by both big sister and queen mum, Donna cast super powers on herself to "mirror" Diana.

Now you got a magical Princess Donna who's good at something her sister isn't, but shares her power set, look, and accoutrements. Plus her studious/curious bent might be the reason she's more adaptable to "cosmopolitan" lifestyles.

My only problem now is how goddamn similar their names are. No mother in her right mind would name both girls like that.

"TROY" can be the name of the boat that burned on the Themysciran beachhead.

[Agent Z]

My own ideas for Donna involve a mysterious divine heritage, a tenement fire in Turkey, and an immortal Diana.

BUT

I can concede to the shipwreck newborn and doting sister notion being far more simpler. It gets both girls on Themyscira, and creates a childhood and family relationship. It doesn't give her Diana's godgiven powers, so let's make them magical. Let's assume Amazons have a coven of Glindas, the same way I'm sure they have metalsmiths, farmers, fisherwomen. While Diana was always crap at magical study, little sis Donna excelled. But since physical prowess was the standard set by both big sister and queen mum, Donna cast super powers on herself to "mirror" Diana.

Now you got a magical Princess Donna who's good at something her sister isn't, but shares her power set, look, and accoutrements. Plus her studious/curious bent might be the reason she's more adaptable to "cosmopolitan" lifestyles.

My only problem now is how goddamn similar their names are. No mother in her right mind would name both girls like that.

"TROY" can be the name of the boat that burned on the Themysciran beachhead.

I've met plenty of parents who did give their kids similar names.

Your idea for Donna's powers is somewhat similar to mine. In mine, the Amazons' powers stem from magic but it is applied in different ways depending on their class. i.e Soldier Amazons use magic to boost their physical stats, while Caster Amazons are your typical elemental or teleporters or stuff like that. Donna would use traits from the two classes but not fully master them but her strength is in being more versatile than most Amazons.

[CRaymond]

I'm a big fan of your Amazonian sects idea.

Yeah my brothers and I all have the same "Ch" sound at the start of our names. DYE-a-nuh and DAH-nuh are nearly identical in sound; Diana and Donna are nearly identical when written.

Maybe there's a different origin to the naming of Donna.

[Phoenixx9]

I thought this would be a perfect set-up for an origin for Donna Troy - at first, I thought that's what it was for. Here's my origin:

And infant 2-year-old girl, who we will call Donna, is lost at sea and brought to Themyscira.She is raised by the Amazons. Diana, at this point, is about 11, and has been the only child on the island. She dotes on Donna, her "little sister." Seeing this, Hippolyta - perhaps unwisely - allows the child to stay longer than usual.

When Donna is about 4, Diana takes her on on a walk through the woods - basically, they go on a picnic. (They've done this before.) At about this time, several prisoners escape from Doom's Doorway. While the Amazons deal with the others, one slips away: Usculesp, the Titan of Mirrors, who carries a mirrored shield and wields strange mirror-related magic. (An ancient, mythological version of Sam Scudder, let us say.)

Teenage Diana comes face-to-face with Usculesp. Donna is in danger (and throws rocks!). There is a battle. Usculesp tries to absorb Diana's powers into his mirror, but the attempt is disrupted (by Diana's prowess, by Donna's rocks) and a portion of them wind up being reflected into Donna. (I could detail the mystical aspects, but they're not terribly relevant here.) Diana defeats Usculesp, just as Hippolyta and the other Amazons - having defeated the other escapees - arrive.

Hippolyta realizes that they have unfairly and unsafely kept Donna for too long. And perhaps, in Usculesp's magical mirror (much like the Wicked Witch's crystal ball), Diana saw that Donna still had a parent, or other family, waiting desperately for her in Man's World. They arrange for Donna to be returned. She remembers little of Themyscira - it's like a dream, and no one believes a 4-year-old anyway. She is raised by her family.

Her powers remain mainly (but not entirely) dormant. Ten years later, she sees Wonder Woman on TV - and recognizes Diana, or at least feels a connection. This awakens her powers. She creates a costume like Wonder Woman's and becomes a teenage superhero, Wonder Girl.

After a few months, Wonder Girl and Wonder Woman meet. Diana realizes this is Donna, and they have a great reunion. With Donna's family's permission, she takes Donna back to Themysicra to see the Amazons who had loved her so much. After that, Donna spends her summer vacations with the Amazons, being trained in their ways.

And Usculesp can become a recurring villain for Donna Troy.

***

Now this origin story I like! Good job, Dr Bifrost!

[Mel Dyer]

Woo'woo! Great ideas for Donna's origin, folks! I especially love that idea about Donna being named 'Troy', for the lost ship that carried her to Paradise Island.