What origin would you give Donna Troy in Rebirth?

[gwangung]

Now this origin story I like! Good job, Dr Bifrost!

Same here. This works for me!

[AmiMizuno]

What Donna be making Diana less unique if Hippoltya has used the clay origin to make Donna? What if the gods tell's Hippoltya Diana would want a playmate? I mean Golden age all the Amazons were able to make children via clay. But I like the origin posted in the previous number. It gives Donna and Diana a spiritual sister connection.

One thing I would like to see is that the send away children because they carry a spiritual connection to each Amazon mother who raised them that each one should have gifts due to their spiritual Amazonian heritage and Holliday Girls or it could be coed Holliday College where all the send infants go to use their powers for equal. Diana winds up when she first arrives here and sees Donna is at the college. (After school program.) That the Holliday girls would be DIana's army. Donna trains with Diana due to her having stay longer than most has superhero strength.

[Phoenixx9]

All the Amazon's are sisters by spiritual design. They all have the sisterhood and spiritual connection.

[warzon]

Well I just had an idea.they say that DIANA has a brother named JASON.what if he's actually JASON TROY and his daughter is DONNA.that would make her DIANA'S NIECE.

[Mel Dyer]

Well I just had an idea.they say that DIANA has a brother named JASON.what if he's actually JASON TROY and his daughter is DONNA.that would make her DIANA'S NIECE.

Wow...intriguing speculation. If mysterious Jason is still in the mix, and, at this point, we can't be sure that he is, I can't help, but wonder, if he will wind up being Donna or Cassie's father.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I'm a big fan of Bifrost dissections, but I've never seen you build a bridge like that. Where did Usculesp come from?

Thanks for the kind words - I think?

If you mean "where did a Titan of Mirrors character come from?", I've always been a big fan of mirror characters (going back to the Knight of Mirrors in Don Quixote) , they play various roles in my fiction, and some people seem to like Byrne's use of a magical mirror, so I spun a Greek mythological version for Diana and Donna.

If you mean "where did the name come from?", it's a near-anagram for speculo (Latin for mirror).

[Outside_85]

I could expand on the idea of the Titans being involved, the Wolfman story was perhaps convoluted because he tried to incorporate the other things like the fire origins. Here goes:

Banished from the world by their children, the Titans made a new home for themselves beyond time and space on a world they called New Chronus. From there they attempted to seek a way to return to Earth yet finding their attempts blocked by Zeus, Poseidon and Hades.
Ages come and go, and while the Titans kept watch for an opening, Zeus and Olympus remained vigilant.

Observing the changing tides of history the Titans see humanity turn from Olympus and seek out new gods to worship. They see the risk of the superhumans as another generation of gods, one that might supplant the old ones.

A plan is formed that perhaps the Titans could return if they came to be included among these new entities mortals were willing to worship. But to do so, they would need a missionary, a hero that could direct the mortals thoughts to them. And seeing as one of Zeus' latest children appears to be one of the greatest, the Titans decide to use her as a model for their own champion. But as inhuman in thought and appearance as the Titans are, they knew they could not care or raise for their creation, and she would not sway humanity if she was not part of them. So they send their creation into the past, to be raised and cared for by others, a branch of the very people whom had raised Zeus' daughter. it would not matter what they taught her, eventually the girls wander lust would take her away and introduce her to the world. And it would not matter what was taught of the Titans, one day, she would know the truth and they would have their way back to the mortal world.

---

I agree with the notion there is not much sense in using the Titans origins if the Titans look and behave like the Olympians. However, since the Titans are banished and mostly unknown, you could have them look, reason and act in completely inhuman ways, but only occasionally wearing human forms so not to startle mortal visitors too much. And in this way, their own plans for Donna may be flawed in a similar way that Trigons plans for Raven is flawed... yeah, it's great they are raised safe among people who might be their enemies, but in doing so you've also let them have the chance to turn your vassal into your enemy.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Donna usually seems more sophisticated than Diana--or cosmopolitan, at least. Like she seems to fit in with American urban life, as if she's always been in cities and immersed in pop culture.

Whatever change to her origin story, it shouldn't change her essential character--it has to support her character.

That's the thing for me: whereas Diana is a "fish out of water" in Man's World, Donna - probably because of the tone of the Silver Age Teen Titans - always seems more like an "All-American Girl" to me. I realize, of course, that this wasn't always justified by her origin-of-the-day. (In the Titans of Myth version, they give her fake memories of a life on Earth, which is not something I'm a big fan of - and is something I think Batman and Robin would discover pretty quickly, as they always seem to want to know a lot about the people they are working with and trusting.) But I prefer an origin where she is primarily raised in Man's World - by fairly ordinary people in the U.S. - but is still connected to, and spends time with, Diana and the Amazons.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Now this origin story I like! Good job, Dr Bifrost!

Thanks much!

[Doctor Bifrost]

Same here. This works for me!

Very kind.

[Mel Dyer]

I could expand on the idea of the Titans being involved, the Wolfman story was perhaps convoluted because he tried to incorporate the other things like the fire origins...

I couldn't agree with you, more.

Marv Wolfman's attempt to narratively graft "Who Is Wonder Girl?" onto "Who Is Donna Troy?", which involved giving Donna false memories [I hate FALSE memories!!], is the crux of what I find problematic about how he used the Titans of Myth in Donna's origin. Keep in mind that all he needed to do was replace Wonder Woman's part in the 'burning building' scenario, with Queen Rhea, who was a magical being. All Donna's memories of life with the Tracy family, her speaking English language and familiarity with modern American customs, just before joining the Teen Titans - ALL of it could have been credited to Rhea's magic ..and left, very simply, at that. To make matters worse, Wolfman uses "Who Is Wonder Girl?" to create for Donna, something that no one asked for - a megalomaniacal, Zod-styled, natural foe in Donna's fellow Titan seed [Hate that name - Titan seed?!], ..Sparta. In my opinion, Donna Troy doesn't need Sparta, ..and neither do we...

And she's funny-lookin'. Seriously...Sparta looks like an angry cabbage! She's way ugly ..and not very interesting.

Marv Wolfman might have had Queen Rhea rescue Donna from the burning tenement, ..as she and her mythical Titans had rescued some other human children from danger, throughout history. Then, he might have showed Donna spirited away to another world or dimension - Ilandia, maybe - where she was trained and powered-up, by the Titans, after which she was magically taught English and packed off to Earth, with a satchel full of modern clothes, ..where she joined the Teen Titans. Since it was well after the Crisis, Wolfman might have left the Tracys out of "Who Is Wonder Girl?", altogether, and retconned them into things, later, ..as some kind people, who befriended Donna, shortly and very briefly, after her arrival on Earth - left it at that.

Hardly an objective, unbiased party, when it comes to "Who Is Wonder Girl?". As I would have preferred to keep her origin, Amazon-centric, I must also confess to generally disliking the presence of the mythical Titans in Donna's story...period. Don't like that big, horsey-looking, adoptive brother of hers, Athyns, either.

[Waterfall]

Hopefully something simple and that can withstand reboots. Cursed reincarnation was such a messy convoluted concept just to make Donna unique.

[CRaymond]

Thanks for the kind words - I think?

In my limited experience, those that read text and parse it into bits come in two varieties, those that pessimistically point at the gaps and those that optimistically fill in the gaps. I'm delighted that you're the latter.

As for Usculesp, I can't say I'm in love with the idea of a Latin Titan, but I also won't say it's not workable. I'm a firm believer that creatures of mythic origin should adhere to their mythic origins as much as possible. Familial connections is such a big part of Greek mythology, a surprise seventh Titan brother strikes me as strange as the revelation of Azzarello's Firstborn. BUT, let's optimistically fill in the gaps.

Maybe Usculesp a second generation Titan, son of Theia, Titaness of Sight... a Titan by lineage, but expressing a monstrous appearance like the cyclops(precedent:Polyphemus)... maybe he was imprisoned at birth in Tartarus, adjacent to Doom's Doorway, if you're keeping that. I don't know, as I said I'm not opposed to the notion so much as wanting MORE from the connection to the Titans of Myth. They're not nice, slightly older versions of the Olympians. They're primordial and elemental in ways that even the Olympians aren't.

I'm on record not liking the Donna Troy character so much as her potential concept, and it's a sentiment I see in a lot of people's frustrations. Yes, there's a dear quality to her presence and portrayal in the NTT, but I'm not sure the best the NTT Donna has to offer benefits the WW franchise. You should start with mythical/magical origins and get fiercely political and idealistic. Burning buildings, false memories, divine "training", these are all soap operatic in tone and delivery, I would love for childlike Donna to have a more magical relationship to Themyscira, like Oz or Wonderland.

[Agent Z]

I could expand on the idea of the Titans being involved, the Wolfman story was perhaps convoluted because he tried to incorporate the other things like the fire origins. Here goes:

Banished from the world by their children, the Titans made a new home for themselves beyond time and space on a world they called New Chronus. From there they attempted to seek a way to return to Earth yet finding their attempts blocked by Zeus, Poseidon and Hades.
Ages come and go, and while the Titans kept watch for an opening, Zeus and Olympus remained vigilant.

Observing the changing tides of history the Titans see humanity turn from Olympus and seek out new gods to worship. They see the risk of the superhumans as another generation of gods, one that might supplant the old ones.

A plan is formed that perhaps the Titans could return if they came to be included among these new entities mortals were willing to worship. But to do so, they would need a missionary, a hero that could direct the mortals thoughts to them. And seeing as one of Zeus' latest children appears to be one of the greatest, the Titans decide to use her as a model for their own champion. But as inhuman in thought and appearance as the Titans are, they knew they could not care or raise for their creation, and she would not sway humanity if she was not part of them. So they send their creation into the past, to be raised and cared for by others, a branch of the very people whom had raised Zeus' daughter. it would not matter what they taught her, eventually the girls wander lust would take her away and introduce her to the world. And it would not matter what was taught of the Titans, one day, she would know the truth and they would have their way back to the mortal world.

---

I agree with the notion there is not much sense in using the Titans origins if the Titans look and behave like the Olympians. However, since the Titans are banished and mostly unknown, you could have them look, reason and act in completely inhuman ways, but only occasionally wearing human forms so not to startle mortal visitors too much. And in this way, their own plans for Donna may be flawed in a similar way that Trigons plans for Raven is flawed... yeah, it's great they are raised safe among people who might be their enemies, but in doing so you've also let them have the chance to turn your vassal into your enemy.

Um, doesn't this just give her an origin way too similar to Raven?

[CRaymond]

Um, doesn't this just give her an origin way too similar to Raven?

evilplan.jpg

You don't say?