Wonder Woman #14 Discussion/Spoilers

[username_]

You know when your super health-conscious sister invites you over for the dinner and all the food is really bland, mine's like "I make beef stroganov with chicken breasts and natural yogurt, you won't even tell the difference I swear". It tasted like paper paste. Rebirth is the low-fun, politically-conscious healthy-alternative of Comics. Everything that tastes nice is bad - bad like Hippolyta having an affair, Wonder Woman calling Strife a b*tch…things like that impart loads of flavor

[CRaymond]

I agree with your sentiment that Rebirth is batting down the middle and banking on nostalgia.

I think DC needs to get MORE political.

[SiegePerilous02]

So you are just irritated it isn't repeated enough?

What I mean is that Morrisons initial story was like the very oldest Superman stories where he was more of a social justice warrior who'd go rough up dastardly CEO's who were stepping on the little guy. And no I wasn't an origins story because, as you say, everything came in flashbacks whenever Clark was reminded of something... like the Kents when he was selling the farm. The most complete of these was the story of Krypto. As such, the origins was a puzzle we had to put together gradually whenever a new piece was given to us while something else was happening.
As for it being Morrison... no, others wouldn't have done it unless DC told them to... Morrison however does what he does best when people don't try to steer him, and DC knows this and is willing to respect it as one of the few cases.

Ok, so you are reaching back before Flashpoint and thus rendering your argument rather invalid when the book you point to predates the big reboot by several years. Stay with Flashpoint and onwards please.
No, you mention Shazam despite me stating specifically that the 'League Founders' save for Cyborg did not get their origins retold, because of the 5 year shift so DC had an excuse to mostly skip these things, that was part of their reasoning as well if I remember correctly. And I would disagree with people being able to go back to his old origins... because unlike Rucka's retelling of Diana's origins, stuff was actually changed in Shazams.

No, I meant that this deluge of Elseword origin stories we are getting for WW don't impact the main Canon, just like the Earth One books for the other two. So we can't point to them and be all "just use that". You said those stories don't count. Well, neither do these WW ones in relation to the main Canon.

So it's a bunch of flashback stories...in the middle of a story based during Clark's early years. When the prior Canon was ditched. Still a reset of his origins and early years. And yes, Morrison did what he wanted but we were still getting an origin story regardless. He just got to be in charge.

Why can't I go before Flashpoint? We are discussing soft reboots and origin retelling for characters who got them and needed their crap sorted out even less than WW. This isn't a trend that statted with Flashpoint.

I would agree with you of Year One was exactly the same as Perez's status quo. But a lot of details were changed because things in the present needed them to be.

[BrianWilly]

I'll tell you what though: if we hadn't gotten Rucka to come back to clean up with the Year One stuff, I would've had no problems at all accepting...say, Renae de Liz's LoWW as the bona fide mainline canon going forward.

Of course, it's silly to take stories like LoWW and Earth One that were specifically intended to be separate from the main continuity and suddenly say "Hey, let's just make it the main continuity now" 'cuz of all the complications it would cause (and, again, the whole point being to reduce those complications)...but in the case of LoWW, I wouldn't have minded making an exception!

[Lokimaru]

I was re-reading some stuff and I foun this in issue #6:

Attachment 43784

So probably all the amazons are, indeed, daughters of Ares.

Only the daughters of Otrera. She was High Queen of the Amazons; the daughter of Eurus (the east wind-Inherited flight?), consort of Ares and mother of Hippolyta, Antiope, Melanippe, and Penthesilea.

[Agent Z]

I agree with your sentiment that Rebirth is batting down the middle and banking on nostalgia.

I think DC needs to get MORE political.

I fail to see how this book isn't political.

[SiegePerilous02]

[QUOTE=username_;2530483]You know when your super health-conscious sister invites you over for the dinner and all the food is really bland, mine's like "I make beef stroganov with chicken breasts and natural yogurt, you won't even tell the difference I swear". It tasted like paper paste. Rebirth is the low-fun, politically-conscious healthy-alternative of Comics. Everything that tastes nice is bad - bad like Hippolyta having an affair, Wonder Woman calling Strife a b*tch…things like that impart loads of flavor[/QUOTE]

That didn't impart any flavor. It was just stupid. Growing up in a non-patriarchal society that wouldn't feel the need to create demeaning put downs for women means that shouldn't be in Diana's vocabulary. I can't imagine her picking it up once she gets here either. If Strife's mere presence was making her angrier than usual, there are any number of things a furious Diana can come up with.

I'll tell you what though: if we hadn't gotten Rucka to come back to clean up with the Year One stuff, I would've had no problems at all accepting...say, Renae de Liz's LoWW as the bona fide mainline canon going forward.

Of course, it's silly to take stories like LoWW and Earth One that were specifically intended to be separate from the main continuity and suddenly say "Hey, let's just make it the main continuity now" 'cuz of all the complications it would cause (and, again, the whole point being to reduce those complications)...but in the case of LoWW, I wouldn't have minded making an exception!

I really wouldn't have minded if Earth One was the main canon, but like you said, it defeats the purpose of giving the creators their own sandbox to play in away from main continuity, whereas the whole purpose of Year One is that its designed to go into effect alongside everything else. Relying on Perez can't work either unless they want to be bogged down by Diana Trevor, re-incarnated cavewomen, Steve and Etta being older and married and being way more boring than they could ever hope to be now, Barbara's backstory and connection to Diana being different and effectively taking the place of the Kapatelis women, Diana losing JL founder status, the Amazons having no technology and a whole bunch of stuff that they would have had to change around anyway so why not re-tell a streamlined origin story?

Between Infinite Crisis screwing around with the timeline One Year later and beyond, to Odyssey being an enormous waste of time, to Flashpoint and the various instances of Diana getting moved to new cities with new supporting casts (whether a reboot is in place or not, the end result is the same: she's all over the damn place), I can't say she's been doing that great without an updated canon origin. And it's not like there was any pretense that this was going to be anything other than mostly self contained re-telling anyway.

I fail to see how this book isn't political.

Yeah, it's got terrorists doing terrorist things in public places, which is sadly very relevant to our times. Multiple queer characters. Attacks on patriarchal thinking. Some less subtle (like Cadullo) than others (Diana eyeing the fashion for women in Man's World with confusion, especially the uncomfortable looking heels that one woman was wearing). I'm not seeing how this doesn't have political elements but the previous run did?

[CRaymond]

I fail to see how this book isn't political.

GAH! I said DC.

Of course WW is political. I want them all to get more topical and weird.

[Lokimaru]

People talk about how things are going back to how they were pre-Flashpoint but pre-Flashpoint Steve was an Older man married to a white Etta Candy. Hell pre-Crises Steve was a major jerk always trying to get Diana to marry him now he's a Nice Guy(tm). They can even nail down what millitary branch he's in like Guile from Street Fighter.

[Agent Z]

People talk about how things are going back to how they were pre-Flashpoint but pre-Flashpoint Steve was an Older man married to a white Etta Candy. Hell pre-Crises Steve was a major jerk always trying to get Diana to marry him now he's a Nice Guy(tm). They can even nail down what millitary branch he's in like Guile from Street Fighter.

Steve was only a jerk to Diana in the Silver Age and in that regard he was no different than any other male character during that time

[username_]

That didn't impart any flavor. It was just stupid. Growing up in a non-patriarchal society that wouldn't feel the need to create demeaning put downs for women means that shouldn't be in Diana's vocabulary. I can't imagine her picking it up once she gets here either. If Strife's mere presence was making her angrier than usual, there are any number of things a furious Diana can come up with.

Well that's the point actually, calling her a b*tch was not PC, it was "bad" but not so bad as to be contemptible, it was just the right amount of "bad" for my palate where it imparts Wonder Woman some zing, some flavor you know. What's stupid is how bland and lame she's now

[LoveStar]

Is this really it for "year one"? All the hype and this whole thing was underwhelming and a waste. Everything was diluted with no actual tension and challenges.

[BrianWilly]

I don't think calling people b*tches makes a character more likable or something but, hey, your mileage may vary.

Is this really it for "year one"? All the hype and this whole thing was underwhelming and a waste. Everything was diluted with no actual tension and challenges.

Well, this is the end of the Year One "arc," but as far as I understand, the storylines will continue to be split between the past and the present. The next even-numbered arc, Godwatch, continues to be set in the past and apparently explores the origins of her rogues.

[Koriand'r]

Well that's the point actually, calling her a b*tch was not PC, it was "bad" but not so bad as to be contemptible, it was just the right amount of "bad" for my palate where it imparts Wonder Woman some zing, some flavor you know. What's stupid is how bland and lame she's now

IIRC Jimenez had Diana call Circe a b*tch back in the 90's so Azzarello was hardly being revolutionary.

[Dr. Poison]

The 2009 Animated film has probably been the definitive Wonder Woman origin story for some time now, not to mention we are getting a live-action film soon...

I still can't get past Ares with a mullet......