Wonder Woman #14 Discussion/Spoilers

[numberthirty]

Is this really it for "year one"? All the hype and this whole thing was underwhelming and a waste. Everything was diluted with no actual tension and challenges.

What I've read certainly wasn't "Boy, I'm really glad we did this all over again for that."

Seems like at least a few folks feel that way. Quite a sales drop since issue #2.

[NYCER]

I'm disappointed. This was a watered down iteration of George Perez's post CRISIS reboot with a younger, unnecessarily shirtless Steve Trevor running around. I maintain Steve has served his purpose as Diana's ticket out of Themyscira and that should be the extent of their relationship. This star crossed thing Rucka's selling, I'm not buying. Again, many of us went from 1987-2011 without Steve as the male Lois Lane and nothing was lost from the mythos or Diana's characterization in all those years.

More bothersome to me is I don't even know what, if anything, survived The New 52. However Johns tries to brand #Afterbirth, but for the BATMAN and a few other titles, WONDER WOMAN sure feels like a bona fide reboot to me.

[brettc1]

It was funny see Diana flying all over the world and a shirtless steve by her side

I wonder if there is some law the Gods can't show up as theirselves on the world, but only as avatars

As I said, Nicola Scott has declared her firm intention for Steve to lose his shirt as often as possible.

Kind of fitting, considering the actor playing him in the movie is also starring as James T Kirk

[brettc1]

IIRC Jimenez had Diana call Circe a b*tch back in the 90's so Azzarello was hardly being revolutionary.

Actually no. Jimenez WANTED her to call Circe that, but editorial forced him to change it witch. He said after it was a completely lame insult, considering that you're talking about a, well, witch.

[And honestly, do we have to use a *? Everyone knows exactly what the word is and I see much worse on the other forums]

[Outside_85]

No, I meant that this deluge of Elseword origin stories we are getting for WW don't impact the main Canon, just like the Earth One books for the other two. So we can't point to them and be all "just use that". You said those stories don't count. Well, neither do these WW ones in relation to the main Canon.

They don't count as parts of the main canon. But that does not stop DC from telling anyone who asks about Diana's origins to just point at it for reference sake.

So it's a bunch of flashback stories...in the middle of a story based during Clark's early years. When the prior Canon was ditched. Still a reset of his origins and early years. And yes, Morrison did what he wanted but we were still getting an origin story regardless. He just got to be in charge.

Save that I dont recall Morrison actually dealing with Krypton exploding or really showing us anything of Clarks childhood.

Why can't I go before Flashpoint? We are discussing soft reboots and origin retelling for characters who got them and needed their crap sorted out even less than WW. This isn't a trend that statted with Flashpoint.

Becasue whatever happened to come before Flashpoint was for all intents and purposes wiped from the pages of history, they became non-canon. Thing is that Batman and Green Lantern didn't bother changing away from the direction that was serving them perfectly fine as it was, it's just the reasons that got them there that wasn't detailed or touched on again.

I would agree with you of Year One was exactly the same as Perez's status quo. But a lot of details were changed because things in the present needed them to be.

Which makes it unsuitable to be used by others since they are going to be tripping over those wires Rucka connected to the present.

[BrianWilly]

You're really reaching here. There are no "wires" to trip over. The details of Wonder Woman's origin, as depicted in Year One, match up just fine with what's being shown in the present day. If any writer in the future wants to write about Wonder Woman's status quo, all they need to do is read the events here and they're all set, because it's being depicted very clearly.

Again, it would be very silly to "just point those Elseworlds stories" for reference's sake when all those stories aren't even all that comparable to each other. Take Earth 1 and Legends of WW, for instance; Diana is a completely different character in these two books. Steve is a completely different character. Etta is a completely different character. Cheetah and Ares don't even appear. In one story, Diana wasn't even crowned the Amazons' champion and sent off with her important mission; she literally escaped from the island and then was dragged back in chains to face trial. One isn't even set in modern times, but in World War 2. One uses the clay origin, the others says Heracles is now her father.

Saying that writers can simply look at those books to "reference" details for Rebirth Wonder Woman just makes me think people haven't actually been paying very close attention to those books! How can you bemoan Rucka supposedly setting up wires to trip over, then claim that a couple of virtually incomparable Wonder Woman origins can all work just fine as standard blueprints to reference?

[LoveStar]

What I've read certainly wasn't "Boy, I'm really glad we did this all over again for that."

Seems like at least a few folks feel that way. Quite a sales drop since issue #2.

Yeah, I don't see why I should care for the supporting cast still. I'll take Azzarello's Diana being trained by Ares than this anti-climatic, watered down retelling.

The Disney Princess vibe needs to go to.

[LoveStar]

Well, this is the end of the Year One "arc," but as far as I understand, the storylines will continue to be split between the past and the present. The next even-numbered arc, Godwatch, continues to be set in the past and apparently explores the origins of her rogues.

This was suppose to be something definitive and hyped up. It wasn't. This and the present was suppose to connect and it doesn't. It just brought up more questions than answers and both stories are just gigantic drawn out retcons of new52 past and then present.

If the exploration of Wonder Woman's rogues are the same as Ares diluted introduction...that's nothing exciting

[BrianWilly]

What do you mean when you say "This and the present was supposed to connect"? That, and the "tripping over those wires Rucka connected to the present" statement from the post above are really confusing me.

Year One does connect with the present day storyline. We see the same characters in both the past and the present; one storyline shows how they all originally met Diana, and the other shows what they're all doing right now. I don't know what you guys mean when you say they don't connect, or that it somehow brought up more questions. Everything about Year One seems really clear to me right now.

If you're saying that the Year One storyline doesn't bluntly solve every single mystery about Diana's false memories...well, yeah. That wasn't the point. All it was intended to do was reestablish the official origin for Wonder Woman. It gave us some teases and hints, but for the most part we've been finding out the truth about Diana's false memories in the present day storyline, and will continue to do so in the next arcs. I mean...neither story is near over yet; did Azzarello conclude every single plot point of his run in just fourteen issues, after all? You know that he didn't.

[Outside_85]

You're really reaching here. There are no "wires" to trip over. The details of Wonder Woman's origin, as depicted in Year One, match up just fine with what's being shown in the present day. If any writer in the future wants to write about Wonder Woman's status quo, all they need to do is read the events here and they're all set, because it's being depicted very clearly.

No, I am not, and I don't think you understand what I mean. It's a proven fact that the more closely connected one story is to another, the harder it is to untangle them if you wanted something from one of them without having to involve the other.
And it goes especially for this story, because the connecting story 'Lies/Truth' is promising a massive amount of changes.

Again, it would be very silly to "just point those Elseworlds stories" for reference's sake when all those stories aren't even all that comparable to each other. Take Earth 1 and Legends of WW, for instance; Diana is a completely different character in these two books. Steve is a completely different character. Etta is a completely different character. Cheetah and Ares don't even appear. In one story, Diana wasn't even crowned the Amazons' champion and sent off with her important mission; she literally escaped from the island and then was dragged back in chains to face trial. One isn't even set in modern times, but in World War 2. One uses the clay origin, the others says Heracles is now her father.

Whoever said you had to point to ALL of the Elseworlds stories? You just point at one and go: "That one is the definitive one we will work from henceforth." And again Earth One is a better starting point because it's not connected to anything and not spread across 5 volumes.

Saying that writers can simply look at those books to "reference" details for Rebirth Wonder Woman just makes me think people haven't actually been paying very close attention to those books! How can you bemoan Rucka supposedly setting up wires to trip over, then claim that a couple of virtually incomparable Wonder Woman origins can all work just fine as standard blueprints to reference?

No, it's just you who are not paying attention to what I am actually saying by the looks of things.

What do you mean when you say "This and the present was supposed to connect"? That, and the "tripping over those wires Rucka connected to the present" statement from the post above are really confusing me.

Lies and Year One are connected. Year One is one time period, and in Lies Diana is questioning why she is remembering it differently.

Year One does connect with the present day storyline. We see the same characters in both the past and the present; one storyline shows how they all originally met Diana, and the other shows what they're all doing right now. I don't know what you guys mean when you say they don't connect, or that it somehow brought up more questions. Everything about Year One seems really clear to me right now.

And thats not the thing. The thing is that somewhere between Lies and Year One, something happened, something big. Something that made everyone in Lies remember things differently, like they can reach Themyscira after leaving it, that Hippolyta is blond and so on. The question everyone is asking is which of these two is actually real and which one is a fantasy someone dreamt up to fool Diana.

If you're saying that the Year One storyline doesn't bluntly solve every single mystery about Diana's false memories...well, yeah. That wasn't the point. All it was intended to do was reestablish the official origin for Wonder Woman. It gave us some teases and hints, but for the most part we've been finding out the truth about Diana's false memories in the present day storyline, and will continue to do so in the next arcs.

I mean...neither story is near over yet; did Azzarello conclude every single plot point of his run in just fourteen issues, after all? You know that he didn't.

YO was never meant to solve anything, but considering the ramifications it has on the other story-line, it should have provided something more than just base-level speculation. All we have, still, is the tree we only saw once and will only see again with the next issue in the present day, maybe with something more about what it is. And on top of it all, we dont know if YO ever happened or if it was just part of the dream.

Actually Year One is over and not continuing into another tale of the past. As for Azzarello, no, he had one big story he told in a linear manner, Rucka has one story he is approaching from several directions.

[Joao]

Actually Year One is over and not continuing into another tale of the past. As for Azzarello, no, he had one big story he told in a linear manner, Rucka has one story he is approaching from several directions.

Actually it is! Godwatch is set in the past, and Rucka promised it will braid with The Truth better Than Year One-The Lies did.

[Agent Z]

Yeah, I don't see why I should care for the supporting cast still. I'll take Azzarello's Diana being trained by Ares than this anti-climatic, watered down retelling.

The Disney Princess vibe needs to go to.

How exactly is she similar to a Disney princess other than being a Disney princess?

[SiegePerilous02]

Save that I dont recall Morrison actually dealing with Krypton exploding or really showing us anything of Clarks childhood.

Depends on how you define "dealing with it." We got Krypton exploding in issue #5 with Krypto getting sucked into the Phantom Zone, then Jor-El and Lara put Clark in the rocket, which then lands in Kansas and is found by John and Martha. The sequence wasn't long but was more than enough to establish a difference with the post-Crisis version, and we later got scenes of Clark and his father testing his powers against a bull and the Legion of Superheroes visiting him for the first time.

All of which took place as flashbacks in an overall run dealing with the rebooted early years of Superman. His run, especially the first arc with Brainiac, was basically a "Year One" for the new version of Clark.

Yeah, I don't see why I should care for the supporting cast still. I'll take Azzarello's Diana being trained by Ares than this anti-climatic, watered down retelling.

The Disney Princess vibe needs to go to.

What Disney Princess vibe? All I can think of is the Gods appearing in animal aspects, which has its roots in actual mythology. And Diana isn't singing to them about a boy she likes or anything.

This was suppose to be something definitive and hyped up. It wasn't. This and the present was suppose to connect and it doesn't. It just brought up more questions than answers and both stories are just gigantic drawn out retcons of new52 past and then present.

If the exploration of Wonder Woman's rogues are the same as Ares diluted introduction...that's nothing exciting

The connections are fairly obvious. The snake bite she gets in Year One part 2 starts bleeding when the Lies are revealed in the present, the ominous black tree that appears on the fake island is the same symbol used by the Sear group, Ares disperses into various animals associated with him including two dogs that look suspiciously like the ones in the company of Veronica Cale, the "Maru" virus shares its name with Dr. Poison, and it shows Diana's first chronological meetings with her friends that are also around in the present day.

It's hard to miss all those. Especially as Rucka said the two stories would "echo" each other, but not the point that Year One can't stand on it's own. There was no pretense of anything else happening.

[LoveStar]

What Disney Princess vibe? All I can think of is the Gods appearing in animal aspects, which has its roots in actual mythology. And Diana isn't singing to them about a boy she likes or anything.



The connections are fairly obvious. The snake bite she gets in Year One part 2 starts bleeding when the Lies are revealed in the present, the ominous black tree that appears on the fake island is the same symbol used by the Sear group, Ares disperses into various animals associated with him including two dogs that look suspiciously like the ones in the company of Veronica Cale, the "Maru" virus shares its name with Dr. Poison, and it shows Diana's first chronological meetings with her friends that are also around in the present day.

It's hard to miss all those. Especially as Rucka said the two stories would "echo" each other, but not the point that Year One can't stand on it's own. There was no pretense of anything else happening.

Well she was humming in the previous issue so, singing just might be the next thing. She has also been stuck in an illusion for 5 years so maybe she is Sleeping Beauty. She is given this doe-eyed happy go lucky attitude. Again, no real tension or challenge just something you would see in a Disney Princess movie. And the god animals....meh. Azzarello's Gods miles better even with their attitudes.

The two stories was to retcon new52, it did that in the most dull way. Don't care about a tree...it's a tree. And a snake bite that conviniently and contrivantly starts bleeding after 10 years.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well she was humming in the previous issue so, singing just might be the next thing. She has also been stuck in an illusion for 5 years so maybe she is Sleeping Beauty. She is given this doe-eyed happy go lucky attitude. Again, no real tension or challenge just something you would see in a Disney Princess movie. And the god animals....meh. Azzarello's Gods miles better even with their attitudes.

The two stories was to retcon new52, it did that in the most dull way. Don't care about a tree...it's a tree. And a snake bite that conviniently and contrivantly starts bleeding after 10 years.

Oh wow, humming and a positive attitude. Only Disney has ever done either of those.

How much you care about the connections and how you feel about their execution is subjective. That's quite a bit different than there being no obvious connections at all, which is what some have said but doesn't work when the echos are so obviously pointed out.