Batwing has to be one of the 52's Batman failed ideas...

[Cmbmool]

I mean the first man under the suit quit...just quit and it's BATMAN!!

I mean it's DC ultimate dark guy...I never knew a person in the BATMAN MYTHOS to just QUIT and stay forgotten.

His replacement is sort of no better since it feels like they tacked it on to give Lucius a son and to make another James Gordon and Barbara Gordon Dynamic in the Batman mythos. As if one wasn't enough.

It's kind of sad and embarrassing that neither father knows of their off-spring's extra activities and connections to Batman.

As Batman fans: What do you think of this ?

[adrikito]

Unfortunately, I do not know about the first batwing.. He has a serie, no?

The current will be member of the Bat-team of Detective Comics...

[geomon]

Never got into it myself, especially after I heard about the first Batwing quitting.

[MindofShadow]

The first Batwing arc was great. A new setting, good story... it was good stuff.

After that (due to sales I think) it went down hill fast.

[MajorHoy]

Unfortunately, I do not know about the first batwing.. He has a serie, no?

HAD a series. Readers didn't give it enough support.

I don't blame DC for any "failures" on this . . . comic book shops and/or buyers (or lack there of) didn't show enough interest and bought crummy books starring the main Batman instead.

[darkseidpwns]

The first arc with Massacre was good but after that it became crappy and same goes for Luke, he too had a promising start but even his tenure went downhill around Gothtopia.

[Maxpower00044]

HAD a series. Readers didn't give it enough support.

I don't blame DC for any "failures" on this . . . comic book shops and/or buyers (or lack there of) didn't show enough interest and bought crummy books starring the main Batman instead.

Well...other than the first arc, the rest of the book was crap (yes, I bought some of them). So, yeah, I'm blaming DC for taking David out of the suit to just throw generic guys into the suit.

[Citizen Kane]

HAD a series. Readers didn't give it enough support.

I don't blame DC for any "failures" on this . . . comic book shops and/or buyers (or lack there of) didn't show enough interest and bought crummy books starring the main Batman instead.

If a book doesn't sell, it sure as hell isn't the reader's fault. If a book isn't worth their time, they won't buy it. DC has to go back to the drawing board as a result.


Batwing, Sonar, and Batwoman have become completely redundant characters, and they serve little other purpose beyond adding more convolution to the Batman mythos. Perhaps DC should work on trying to make heroes interesting, independent characters. Being another Batman offshoot should not be a selling point.

[Bat-Meal]

Batwing, Sonar, and Batwoman have become completely redundant characters, and they serve little other purpose beyond adding more convolution to the Batman mythos.

I know, they are so redundant that DC has decided to hide them in a TV series. Just like they are doing with the Titans and Pennyworth.

[Aahz]

I know, they are so redundant that DC has decided to hide them in a TV series. Just like they are doing with the Titans and Pennyworth.

That's partly because they mostly reserve the prominent characters for the Big Screen.
With the exception of Flash non of the characters they put on the CW are really A-List properties.

Super Girl for example keeps ripping of Superman story lines and concepts, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see something similar with Batwoman.

[Caivu]

Batwing, Sonar, and Batwoman have become completely redundant characters, and they serve little other purpose beyond adding more convolution to the Batman mythos.

No. What's redundant about any of them? Overlap =/= redundancy.

[Citizen Kane]

No. What's redundant about any of them? Overlap =/= redundancy.

The existence of Batgirl, by association, makes the existence of Batwoman redundant. Same goes for Batwing, Sonar, Black Bat, and the like, in relation to Robin or Batman. Unfortunately, just because you like a character does not make their existence any less redundant. A writer can make a character as independent and unique as they like, but that does not change the fact that their character is just another bat-themed vigilante that shares a similar look and aesthetic to another character. It's like glazing a donut with cream when it's already filled with cream; it's redundant.

From an editor's standpoint, why would you want to have two or three bat-themed heroines when you already had an established one from years ago? Same goes for the other Batman knockoffs. Why not simply direct viewership to the already established characters instead of across 5+ clones, especially when your established character is still very popular? You'd think DC could simply promote a new character as just that: a new character--with no ties to other characters of course. A new reader could easily be left confused and overwhelmed by the overload of characters that are nearly just copy/pastes of Batman but with gender swaps and color changes.


As for the poster who mentioned character appearances in TV; that bares no correlation to a character's popularity in the slightest. Just because a producer thought it would be neat to add a certain character does not mean they were popular to begin with, nor does it mean they'll become popular afterwards. I'm already getting flashbacks of the comments people were making when they heard that The Guardians of the Galaxy were getting a movie.

[JasonTodd428]

I mean the first man under the suit quit...just quit and it's BATMAN!!

I mean it's DC ultimate dark guy...I never knew a person in the BATMAN MYTHOS to just QUIT and stay forgotten.

His replacement is sort of no better since it feels like they tacked it on to give Lucius a son and to make another James Gordon and Barbara Gordon Dynamic in the Batman mythos. As if one wasn't enough.

It's kind of sad and embarrassing that neither father knows of their off-spring's extra activities and connections to Batman.

As Batman fans: What do you think of this ?

I don't think the idea failed. What I think happened is the writers and DC editorial failed the character.

The out of story reason David Z. "quit" was because editorial decided that the reason the Batwing book was a low seller was because it was too far removed from Gotham and Batmans's sphere of influence. THAT is the real reason behind all of this. The introduction of his replacement (Luke Fox) was handled badly by the incoming creative team and that hacked off David's fans who then left the title completely. I was one of them actually. I would have been happy to continue to support the book but for two things:

1. By moving the book to Gotham it took away everything I enjoyed about the book and turned a unique book with a lot of potential into "just another Bat book". I liked that it was a Bat title that was doing its own thing away from the normal setting of Gotham and the normal Bat villains. I enjoyed the characters around David and I loved Matu. I enjoyed the art and the "real world" feel the book had. Everything about it resonated with me in a big way. All of that was ruined by returning the book to a more traditional Bat setting with more traditional Bat characters involved.

2. The whole way the incoming creative team handled the transition between David and Luke just rubbed me the wrong way. Having Batman basically imply that David wasn't "good enough" by saying Luke was actually his "first choice" for the mantle was not the way to handle the transition. Nor was fridging Matu and the rest of his supporting cast just to get rid of him. That was completely unnecessary but apparently the creatives couldn't think of a better way to handle things and frankly it made fans of the first series angry enough that they didn't want to have anything to do with the second one.

It's got to be one of the worst cases of the complete destruction of a character that I've seen in recent years.

[Maxpower00044]

I don't think the idea failed. What I think happened is the writers and DC editorial failed the character.

The out of story reason David Z. "quit" was because editorial decided that the reason the Batwing book was a low seller was because it was too far removed from Gotham and Batmans's sphere of influence. THAT is the real reason behind all of this. The introduction of his replacement (Luke Fox) was handled badly by the incoming creative team and that hacked off David's fans who then left the title completely. I was one of them actually. I would have been happy to continue to support the book but for two things:

1. By moving the book to Gotham it took away everything I enjoyed about the book and turned a unique book with a lot of potential into "just another Bat book". I liked that it was a Bat title that was doing its own thing away from the normal setting of Gotham and the normal Bat villains. I enjoyed the characters around David and I loved Matu. I enjoyed the art and the "real world" feel the book had. Everything about it resonated with me in a big way. All of that was ruined by returning the book to a more traditional Bat setting with more traditional Bat characters involved.

2. The whole way the incoming creative team handled the transition between David and Luke just rubbed me the wrong way. Having Batman basically imply that David wasn't "good enough" by saying Luke was actually his "first choice" for the mantle was not the way to handle the transition. Nor was fridging Matu and the rest of his supporting cast just to get rid of him. That was completely unnecessary but apparently the creatives couldn't think of a better way to handle things and frankly it made fans of the first series angry enough that they didn't want to have anything to do with the second one.

It's got to be one of the worst cases of the complete destruction of a character that I've seen in recent years.

+1. Agree completely.

[LifeIsILL]

It just felt like some Black Panther ripoff....only nowhere near as good.