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  1. #1
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    Default Batwing has to be one of the 52's Batman failed ideas...

    I mean the first man under the suit quit...just quit and it's BATMAN!!

    I mean it's DC ultimate dark guy...I never knew a person in the BATMAN MYTHOS to just QUIT and stay forgotten.

    His replacement is sort of no better since it feels like they tacked it on to give Lucius a son and to make another James Gordon and Barbara Gordon Dynamic in the Batman mythos. As if one wasn't enough.

    It's kind of sad and embarrassing that neither father knows of their off-spring's extra activities and connections to Batman.

    As Batman fans: What do you think of this ?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I do not know about the first batwing.. He has a serie, no?

    The current will be member of the Bat-team of Detective Comics...
    Last edited by adrikito; 01-12-2017 at 07:38 AM.

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member geomon's Avatar
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    Never got into it myself, especially after I heard about the first Batwing quitting.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    The first Batwing arc was great. A new setting, good story... it was good stuff.

    After that (due to sales I think) it went down hill fast.
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  5. #5
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    Unfortunately, I do not know about the first batwing.. He has a serie, no?
    HAD a series. Readers didn't give it enough support.

    I don't blame DC for any "failures" on this . . . comic book shops and/or buyers (or lack there of) didn't show enough interest and bought crummy books starring the main Batman instead.

  6. #6
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    The first arc with Massacre was good but after that it became crappy and same goes for Luke, he too had a promising start but even his tenure went downhill around Gothtopia.

  7. #7
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I mean the first man under the suit quit...just quit and it's BATMAN!!

    I mean it's DC ultimate dark guy...I never knew a person in the BATMAN MYTHOS to just QUIT and stay forgotten.

    His replacement is sort of no better since it feels like they tacked it on to give Lucius a son and to make another James Gordon and Barbara Gordon Dynamic in the Batman mythos. As if one wasn't enough.

    It's kind of sad and embarrassing that neither father knows of their off-spring's extra activities and connections to Batman.

    As Batman fans: What do you think of this ?
    I don't think the idea failed. What I think happened is the writers and DC editorial failed the character.

    The out of story reason David Z. "quit" was because editorial decided that the reason the Batwing book was a low seller was because it was too far removed from Gotham and Batmans's sphere of influence. THAT is the real reason behind all of this. The introduction of his replacement (Luke Fox) was handled badly by the incoming creative team and that hacked off David's fans who then left the title completely. I was one of them actually. I would have been happy to continue to support the book but for two things:

    1. By moving the book to Gotham it took away everything I enjoyed about the book and turned a unique book with a lot of potential into "just another Bat book". I liked that it was a Bat title that was doing its own thing away from the normal setting of Gotham and the normal Bat villains. I enjoyed the characters around David and I loved Matu. I enjoyed the art and the "real world" feel the book had. Everything about it resonated with me in a big way. All of that was ruined by returning the book to a more traditional Bat setting with more traditional Bat characters involved.

    2. The whole way the incoming creative team handled the transition between David and Luke just rubbed me the wrong way. Having Batman basically imply that David wasn't "good enough" by saying Luke was actually his "first choice" for the mantle was not the way to handle the transition. Nor was fridging Matu and the rest of his supporting cast just to get rid of him. That was completely unnecessary but apparently the creatives couldn't think of a better way to handle things and frankly it made fans of the first series angry enough that they didn't want to have anything to do with the second one.

    It's got to be one of the worst cases of the complete destruction of a character that I've seen in recent years.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 01-12-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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  8. #8
    CBR got me like.. Maxpower00044's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    HAD a series. Readers didn't give it enough support.

    I don't blame DC for any "failures" on this . . . comic book shops and/or buyers (or lack there of) didn't show enough interest and bought crummy books starring the main Batman instead.


    Well...other than the first arc, the rest of the book was crap (yes, I bought some of them). So, yeah, I'm blaming DC for taking David out of the suit to just throw generic guys into the suit.
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  9. #9
    CBR got me like.. Maxpower00044's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I don't think the idea failed. What I think happened is the writers and DC editorial failed the character.

    The out of story reason David Z. "quit" was because editorial decided that the reason the Batwing book was a low seller was because it was too far removed from Gotham and Batmans's sphere of influence. THAT is the real reason behind all of this. The introduction of his replacement (Luke Fox) was handled badly by the incoming creative team and that hacked off David's fans who then left the title completely. I was one of them actually. I would have been happy to continue to support the book but for two things:

    1. By moving the book to Gotham it took away everything I enjoyed about the book and turned a unique book with a lot of potential into "just another Bat book". I liked that it was a Bat title that was doing its own thing away from the normal setting of Gotham and the normal Bat villains. I enjoyed the characters around David and I loved Matu. I enjoyed the art and the "real world" feel the book had. Everything about it resonated with me in a big way. All of that was ruined by returning the book to a more traditional Bat setting with more traditional Bat characters involved.

    2. The whole way the incoming creative team handled the transition between David and Luke just rubbed me the wrong way. Having Batman basically imply that David wasn't "good enough" by saying Luke was actually his "first choice" for the mantle was not the way to handle the transition. Nor was fridging Matu and the rest of his supporting cast just to get rid of him. That was completely unnecessary but apparently the creatives couldn't think of a better way to handle things and frankly it made fans of the first series angry enough that they didn't want to have anything to do with the second one.

    It's got to be one of the worst cases of the complete destruction of a character that I've seen in recent years.


    +1. Agree completely.
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  10. #10
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    It just felt like some Black Panther ripoff....only nowhere near as good.

  11. #11
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Ehh, I still really like Luke. I tried Batwing's first arc, and was not enjoying it at all. Just not for me. But I found Luke's adventures reasonably interesting, and I love the connection to the Fox family (who I like for their connection to Bruce, and the Red Robin series).
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  12. #12
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    The first Batwing was cool and had an interesting setting. Being apart of Gotham and it`s universe is exactly what drew to me. As for "quitting", it was badly done and rushed to conclude the last arc that introduced Luke.

    I never read Luke or cared to.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    The Batman-of-Africa-concept was promising and I hoped for some exotic touch but got some depressing child-soldier plot instead with art I didn't enjoy. It really was low-tec Iron Man/Rocketeer in grim-dark setting.

    The 2nd Batwing imho had much better art and writing despite changing the main character. I enjoyed Luke's version much more.

  14. #14
    Incredible Member jules's Avatar
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    I do think that they possibly picked the wrong Batman Inc character to give a series to. Nightrunner in Paris might have had more story potential (and more openings for other members of the Bat family to pop by for a visit, to give it more visibility while still remaining its own thing in its own space.)

    Having said that, I liked David a lot, and bought the series till the switch of lead characters, even though I thought it had flaws. One of those was the art - too many blank backgrounds at times, when we should have been seeing urban and rural Africa. Another was that the plots got into a bit of a rut - everything seemed to be about David's child soldier days coming back to haunt him, or about police and political corruption. There needed to be more light to balance the shade, and a smidgen of fun here and there.

    Probably Luke's run was more balanced in that perspective, but it was such a cynical switch that I was one of those who dropped the book and walked away. It would have been less of a slap in the face for fans of the original run if they'd relaunched with a new number one.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Mr. Mastermind's Avatar
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    Batwing was a great concept and the first few issues of it delivered that pretty well. He's meant to be the "Batman of Africa", meaning he's an America icon translated into another culture and place.

    When sales tanked (purely because Batwing is a new character which means he'll automatically sell poorly), DC took this uniqueness away and made him heavily related to Batman and in Gotham because they thought this might help sales (but comic readers still won't read about a new character).

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