Anyone feel the Rebirth Green Arrow is going off the rails a bit?

[bat39]

It started out pretty well as a sort of modernized take on the 'classic' Green Arrow from the 70's and 80's, and of course the Green Arrow - Black Canary romance made its much awaited welcome. And the concept of the Ninth Circle was pretty neat. Even the stories focusing on Emiko and her twisted relationship with Shado and with Oliver was interesting for a time.

But the series always had a few weaker elements that, with this latest arc, have REALLY come to the forefront.

See, I'm okay with Green Arrow being an explicitly left-leaning character (as much as I personally prefer his more apolitical depictions) provided its explored with some kind of subtlety and nuance. Or, at the very least, not as stupidly as it is here.

This last arc is simply loaded with strawman leftist cliches and arguments. We have the strawman 'racist white cop' caricature. The strawman Trump analogue mayoral candidate. The strawman pharma CEO. We have Oliver bitching about 'white yuppies' and praising the growing immigrant population of Seattle (as in literally stating it out loud). And worst of all is how Black Canary has suddenly turned into some kind of socialistic 'morality pet' for Oliver, sending him on a guilt trip for simply wanting to reclaim his identity as Oliver Queen and his family's company (which is currently being controlled by a Ninth Circle agent) - asking him to build a new life with her as a dweller of the wilderness who selflessly dedicates his entire existence to being a hero of the masses.

Honestly, I feel that the 70's stories by Neal Adams dealt with social issues and Green Arrow being a more socially conscious hero with more nuance and verisimilitude than this current series.

[Rakzo]

"A bit"? Nope.

Since the beginning, Percy's stories have been suffering from inconsistent characterization (Emiko's "I made this overly-convoluted plan to look like I betrayed you just to save you, no matter if I only made things worse and almost killed both you and Dinah!" being the most notorious) and awkward pacing. The dialogue has been fluctuating between impossible and sometimes tolerable. Oh, and the terrible use of GA villains and overall mythos, one can't forget that.

Mind you, Rebirth is not as bad as Percy's New 52 GA but it still suffers from many of the same problems. Sure, is not as politically stupid as his early work (if it was we would see Oliver being turned into a vampire and suddenly discover that he's a misogynist or some sh*t like that) but is still poorly written most of the time with several instances of bad transitions between chapters and a non-existant build-up to characters and stories that deserved way more than what they actually received (i.e. Merlyn).

And yes one can't ignore that Percy trying to go "internet political" is insufferable, not only because of how blunt and heavyhanded is but also because of how completely unsincere it ultimately is. The guy is not interested in delivering a deep social commentary to make people think, he only wants the little buzzwords he poorly injects into the story to start getting reblogged in Tumblr (although this might be better than the alternative, we all know what happens when Percy tries to be "profound").

Again, is not like the Liberal persona can't work because it can, it just needs to be executed in a subtle and most importantly, natural manner to make people relate to this kind of situations, something that Percy can't do and he probably never will.

Which makes me wonder, why doesn't DC hire Garth Ennis to write Green Arrow? He would create realistic social commentary while showcasing Oliver's classic human flaws perfectly. If he was on the title we would probably see a reinvention in the same vein to what he did to The Punisher.

[mr_crisp]

Not of the politics stuff is rather in your face. It's like the writer is shoving your face into a big pile of it all the while wanting you to tell him how clever he is.

[Frontier]

Eh, I'm still enjoying it quite a bit.

I think Percy's in-your-face dialogue and obvious topical/real world stand-ins bother me less because the book in general is pretty fun and the character dynamics and action are great, so it's not something I really find issue with.

[lameco]

This is really the reason why I stopped reading this. I don't think Percy really knows what he is talking about with the whole political angle. Like already said, he probably just peaked on tumblr and thought "yeah, this sounds right" and threw it into the comic with little thought, despite it being out of place (not that I consider there to be a place for that stuff anywhere). The mansplainning thing in the post above makes me shudder in cringe and it confirms that I made the right decision to stop reading it.

[MajorHoy]

I had problems with Percy's Green Arrow back in DCYou, and the idea of adding Dinah back into Oliver's life for Rebirth was a great idea . . . but still handled by a writer who doesn't know the meaning of "subtle" (as well as a whole bunch of other words).

It's a book I want desperately to like . . . but just can't.

[mr_crisp]

This is supposed to be a younger version of the Ollie that we are used to but I keep hearing and seeing the older Ollie.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I'm pretty sure Black Canary wasn't being serious with the "mansplaining" line. She was just teasing Ollie at that time.

[David Walton]

Personally, I'm loving Percy's Green Arrow. I think it's a fun book that embraces Ollie's liberalism but never takes the political stuff too seriously. I definitely don't get the impression that Percy is trying to convert anyone to his politics. His Ollie doesn't lecture people like O'Neal's did.

[David Walton]

This is supposed to be a younger version of the Ollie that we are used to but I keep hearing and seeing the older Ollie.

It's kind of explained by this idea of the 'missing ten years' that's been discussed in other DC Rebirth books. You've got some characters that even remember their pre-Flashpoint history now in varying degrees. Ollie has an unexplained connection to Black Canary, for instance.

[Caivu]

I'm pretty sure Black Canary wasn't being serious with the "mansplaining" line. She was just teasing Ollie at that time.

Especially since she doesn't even use it in the right context. She asked him a question, and he answered. What he was saying wasn't unsolicited, nor was it condescending from what I can tell.

[bat39]

Personally, I'm loving Percy's Green Arrow. I think it's a fun book that embraces Ollie's liberalism but never takes the political stuff too seriously. I definitely don't get the impression that Percy is trying to convert anyone to his politics. His Ollie doesn't lecture people like O'Neal's did.

I dunno...at least when O'Neal's Ollie made an impassioned speech about how America's a great country that has lost its way in some areas, it may have been a bit on the nose, but it felt like something genuine. Even if you didn't agree with Oliver's politics, you could at least get behind his sincerity in wanting to make a difference.

Percy's Green Arrow is basically a strawman spouting the left-wing buzzwords of the day. And his Black Canary comes across as some leftist ideologue trying to get her man on the 'right path' by emotionally blackmailing him into giving up not only his property but his very identity.

You know, instead of merely borrowing characters and plot elements from 'Arrow', Percy would do well to take some cues from 'Arrow' on how to characterize Oliver Queen. Especially from Season 1 of the show. Now that was an Oliver Queen who genuinely wanted to help the little guy and take down the powerful corrupt individuals ruling Starling City through intimidation and fear. And he did it without calling himself a "social justice warrior" or complaining about how the city has "too many white yuppies".

[Frontier]

This is supposed to be a younger version of the Ollie that we are used to but I keep hearing and seeing the older Ollie.

I definitely read him in the same voice I do for older Ollie now (which is pretty much just DCAU Green Arrow's voice).

[Rakzo]

I'm pretty sure Black Canary wasn't being serious with the "mansplaining" line. She was just teasing Ollie at that time.

Especially since she doesn't even use it in the right context. She asked him a question, and he answered. What he was saying wasn't unsolicited, nor was it condescending from what I can tell.

This is Percy we're talking about people, most of the time he can't even use the buzzwords he wants to promote right.

[mr_crisp]

It's kind of explained by this idea of the 'missing ten years' that's been discussed in other DC Rebirth books. You've got some characters that even remember their pre-Flashpoint history now in varying degrees. Ollie has an unexplained connection to Black Canary, for instance.

It's not the relationship with Black Canary that is bothering me, although that has moved rather fast in my opinion, it's just the way I'm reading Ollie's dialog.