Peter, Mary Jane and Annie-May Parker: Renew Your Vows Appreciation 2018

[WebLurker]

I'm not trying to ruin RYV for anyone. I'm just pointing out facts.

Sure does not feel like it.

RYV's is a disgusting attempt to get back on their reader's good sides after alienating many of them with OMD. If that's something you want to fall for, fine. If I read it, I'd probably enjoy it.

I think that Marvel's master plan is just to come up with something that people will want to buy, no more, no less.

However, after reading it, I'd realize that none of that story will ever be mentioned or expanded upon again, and the only Spidey I'll be left with is the shitty, garbage, post OMD 616 ASM. It would just be more hurtful than enjoyable in the long run.

Why does it need to mentioned or expanded in other places to matter?

[2Thumbs]

Sure does not feel like it.



I think that Marvel's master plan is just to come up with something that people will want to buy, no more, no less.



Why does it need to mentioned or expanded in other places to matter?

Exactly. All they care about is money. They have no respect for the fans or the character.

[Inversed]

I have said this before, but I'm pretty sure if they had just taken the last two parts of what became One Moment In Time and done that instead of One More Day, the hate and damage wouldn't nearly be as bad.

If you look at that story and the start of Brand New Day, you can tell all that was on their mind was rebooting Spider-Man, and didn't really think of the consequences of the implications meant, so when they finally backed them into a corner they had to go "Oh, no, don't worry, everything still happened exactly as you read it, except this one kind of major thing"

I don't see it as them not caring, I see it as them not thinking. And considering they did end up doing OMIT, I think they probably wish they just did that to begin with.

Also counter-argument: There have been many truly good Spider-Man stories, in ASM and in side-books since then. Including Renew Your Vows. Good stories don't make a bad decision better, but also a bad decision doesn't invalidate good stories.

[Celgress]

.....Also counter-argument: There have been many truly good Spider-Man stories, in ASM and in side-books since then. Including Renew Your Vows. Good stories don't make a bad decision better, but also a bad decision doesn't invalidate good stories.

That is a valid point, one I wish I could have encapsulated as well as you have.

[2Thumbs]

I have said this before, but I'm pretty sure if they had just taken the last two parts of what became One Moment In Time and done that instead of One More Day, the hate and damage wouldn't nearly be as bad.

I don't see it as them not caring, I see it as them not thinking. And considering they did end up doing OMIT, I think they probably wish they just did that to begin with.

Also counter-argument: There have been many truly good Spider-Man stories, in ASM and in side-books since then. Including Renew Your Vows. Good stories don't make a bad decision better, but also a bad decision doesn't invalidate good stories.

First of all, OMIT was damage control. It was mediocre at best. And I disagree. OMD will forever taint ASM. Even Marvel wont let it die by taunting readers with MJ every few issues. They either need to completely get rid of MJ or undo OMD.

What good Spidey stories have come since?

Superior? Yes, let's watch Doc Ock fall in love and rape a woman, thereby tricking her into raping Peter Parker!

Spider Island? God, was that a cluster fuck.

Another Clone Saga? That hasnt been done to death.

Renew Your Vows? Blatant cash grab trying to bring back the readers they alienated with OMD.

I honestly cant think of a single decent story in Slott's run. None. What are these 'Truly Great' ones, in ASM especially.

Edit: This is mainly due to never having any sort of resolution to OMD. Ten years, no satisfaction. The memories are still erased. They still troll readers with MJ/Pete every few issues. Spidey still doesn't have a definitive win over Mephisto. They don't have to bring back the Spider-Marriage. Just give us some closure for a 20 year era of comics, then NEVER bring back MJ as a love interest or potential love interest. No more teases, no more taunts. Let MJ/Peter die, even in alt universe comics like RYV. Let the wounds heal. Right now they're festered and are infecting everything Spidey related.

[Celgress]

Superior? Yes, let's watch Doc Ock fall in love and rape a woman, thereby tricking her into raping Peter Parker!
.

Okay, those are fighting words. You have besmirched one of my favorite Spider-Man stories of all time. Superior was a fascinating case study of a villain struggling to be a hero while falling prey to his darker impulses. It ultimately proved why not everyone can or should be a hero and why Peter is the one true Spider-Man. The chances taken with the narrative were bold. Both Ock and Peter grew tremendously as characters as a result of their struggle against each other for control of Peter's body (too bad all of Ock's character development was later undone). Plus Superior introduced Anna Maria Marconi who has proven herself to be one of the most original, dynamic and interesting comic book characters in years bar none.

[2Thumbs]

Okay, those are fighting words. You have besmirched one of my favorite Spider-Man stories of all time. Superior was a fascinating case study of a villain struggling to be a hero while falling prey to his darker impulses. It ultimately proved why not everyone can or should be a hero and why Peter is the one true Spider-Man. The chances taken with the narrative were bold. Both Ock and Peter grew tremendously as characters as a result of their struggle against each other for control of Peter's body (too bad all of Ock's character development was later undone). Plus Superior introduced Anna Maria Marconi who has proven herself to be one of the most original, dynamic and interesting comic book characters in years bar none.

She's another brainy Super Hero Sidekick. Not exactly original, but okay.

And an interesting case study? He murdered and raped while in Pete's body. Bold choices indeed. Most comics dont have the main character raping the love interest, while tricking them into raping someone else. Body snatching ftw.

And of course they undid Ock's character development. No character is ever allowed to develop in ASM.

[Celgress]

She's another brainy Super Hero Sidekick. Not exactly original, but okay.

And an interesting case study? He murdered and raped while in Pete's body. Bold choices indeed. Most comics dont have the main character raping the love interest, while tricking them into raping someone else. Body snatching ftw.

And of course they undid Ock's character development. No character is ever allowed to develop in ASM.

You're completely missing the point of Superior Spider-Man. The story is all about the folly of Ock thinking he is "Superior" to Peter and can thus do a better job of being Spider-Man. He employs brutal tactics such as murder to prove his point which ultimately does the opposite. Ock cannot cut it as Spider-Man because he lacks Peter's compassion and sense of responsibility.

[2Thumbs]

You're completely missing the point of Superior Spider-Man. The story is all about the folly of Ock thinking he is "Superior" to Peter and can thus do a better job of being Spider-Man. He employs brutal tactics such as murder to prove his point which ultimately does the opposite. Ock cannot cut it as Spider-Man because he lacks Peter's compassion and sense of responsibility.

No, I got that. The raping was unnecessary though.

And it still would have been a better story if MJ was still married to Peter, realizes that Ock is NOT Peter, then works behind Ock's back to find and restore Peter, eventually being the catalyst for Ock's realization. Meanwhile she pretends to play nice with Ock, using her acting pedigree to both keep him unaware of her knowledge and get out of anything too intimate.

Over time, Ock could have even fallen for MJ instead of Random Mary Sue #456. Instead of Anna Maria, he could have pronounced his love to her, tried to seduce her, but she rejects him, letting him know that she knows who he is. She escapes his ensuing wrath, gets captured like Anna Maria did, then Octavius gives Pete's body back to save her.

Better story. By far. No 20 year retcons necessary to tell that story.

[Miles To Go]

Guys, enough of this. This is the RYV appreciation thread, not the Superior/OMD/OMIT debating thread (though I also think all three of those stories are absolute garbage)

It's also not an "RYV is pointless fanfiction designed to appease marriage fans" thread. If you want to badmouth or demerit the title for doing something positive, do it somewhere else.

I have said this before, but I'm pretty sure if they had just taken the last two parts of what became One Moment In Time and done that instead of One More Day, the hate and damage wouldn't nearly be as bad.

Quesada did not want to teach kids that divorce was ok, and as much as devil dealing is worse if you happen to be a kid and religious, I agree with him

[Cap'n_RDM]

If Conway was writing it would certainly be a real family style book but Marvel drove him away because they panicked.

What caused Marvel to panic and drive Conway away?

[Miles To Go]

What caused Marvel to panic and drive Conway away?

The low sales after the series launched.

They were banking on RYV to be a top-level title and when sales didn't meet expectations, they thought it'd be a good idea to move the needle by giving the Venom symbiote to MJ because variants with her in the role always worked. Conway objected and departed shorlty after.

[Digifiend]

Yeah - they basically used RYV to push Venomverse.

[Inversed]

Yeah - they basically used RYV to push Venomverse.

It's funny because I actually kind of liked that story, even though it was a bit rushed, so that just shows how good Conway (and Stegman) are that they can still make a story they were forced to do enjoyable. Although it does make me wish we could've seen what else Conway was gonna do.

[Digifiend]

That was mostly Stegman, he took over writing duties when Conway walked.