Peter, Mary Jane and Annie-May Parker: Renew Your Vows Appreciation 2018

[Miles To Go]

I wonder how many of the movie going crowd even care for that when they practically help Marvel keep them apart by showing up to Homecoming as a result it became a hit and further encouraged Marvel to keep Mary Jane and Peter apart. Not that it stopped Dan Slott from dropping the sadly unrealised hints of the marriage returning in Secret Wars 2015. You'd think Go Down Swinging could have been that story though where they do get them back together

I can't speak for Dan's thought process during the story, only he can answer that definitively, but if Spencer or indeed Dan had other plans for MJ in their runs on ASM and Iron Man that required her and Peter to be apart, then that likely fueled his motivations in Go Down Swinging.

[Miles To Go]

Reality is all well and good but there's a lot of different kinds of relationships to draw on from reality, and you have even more freedom in fiction (especially Superhero fiction).

If you think there is freeedom in fiction, why restrict the likelihood of Peter and MJ getting together in Wiesman's universe to only if Gwen died? Because Wiesman said so?

[The Dying Detective]

I can't speak for Dan's thought process during the story, only he can answer that definitively, but if Spencer or indeed Dan had other plans for MJ in their runs on ASM and Iron Man that required her and Peter to be apart, then that likely fueled his motivations in Go Down Swinging.

I can't see how Dan Slott would use Mary Jane in Iron Man not when she really doesn't do anything not even her position in the company seems all that influential she may have access to Stark's stuff but it still doesn't mean anything if she isn't allotted her own agency. I think most would have preferred it if she was allowed to quit it. Well Spencer did have plans for yet another love interest for Peter which probably explains why he's keeping them apart but how many more must Peter go through until he reaches Mary Jane? Even the more well-received Mockingbird romance was thrown out and poorly too.

[Frontier]

If you think there is freeedom in fiction, why restrict the likelihood of Peter and MJ getting together in Wiesman's universe to only if Gwen died? Because Wiesman said so?

I dunno, because it's how it happened in the comics and I think that's what Weisman was going for?

[Miles To Go]

I dunno, because it's how it happened in the comics and I think that's what Weisman was going for?

But why say there's freedom in fiction and then argue that it has to be exactly the way it is in the comics?

Even Slott recently added in a retcon that Gwen thought she'd eventually lose Peter to MJ in Clone Conspiracy, so if Wiesman suddenly got permission to do the movies NOW, maybe he'd take that into consideration and use it to fuel the story he wanted to tell.

I think we'll table this discussion, it's all a bit "What If..." now.

I'm just trying to argue that Peter and Gwen don't need the specter of death to necessarily break them...though I doubt Wiesman would ever have approved of an alternative in Sins Past.

[Kevinroc]

I guess as long as it does not touch their precious Marvel Cinematic Universe Marvel is more than happy to use her any adaptations. After all there's been a lot off corporate synergy on Marvel's side to match the MCU probably in the hopes that they can get the movie audience to buy their stuff. That seems to be the pattern I'm seeing anyway.

That's what's weird. Because it's not as if a PS4 exclusive AAA video game is an insignificant product. The PS4 God of War sold more than 3 million copies within the first few days of its release. And several of Spidey's PS4 game trailers have millions of views on Youtube.

[The Dying Detective]

That's what's weird. Because it's not as if a PS4 exclusive AAA video game is an insignificant product. The PS4 God of War sold more than 3 million copies within the first few days of its release. And several of Spidey's PS4 game trailers have millions of views on Youtube.

You don't say? Maybe Marvel is being really short sighted as they began to see the billions they were making from the movies come in. And that means they should be trying to make Spider-man match the PS4 game not the Homecoming one which for some the movie was mediocre.

[Kevinroc]

You don't say? Maybe Marvel is being really short sighted as they began to see the billions they were making from the movies come in. And that means they should be trying to make Spider-man match the PS4 game not the Homecoming one which for some the movie was mediocre.

Technically, Marvel makes nothing from the Sony movies. The current deal lets Marvel use Spider-Man in movies they make for themselves/Disney (like Captain America: Civil War and Avengers: Infinity War) and, what was it, Marvel gets all the merchandise money, and in return, Marvel makes the live-action Spider-Man movies for Sony.

I don't know what kind of deal is in place for the PS4 game. All I know is Marvel asked Sony to make a top of the line Marvel game, and Spider-Man PS4 is what came out of that agreement.

[Inversed]

I really don't believe there is some big conspiracy to keep MJ out of things. I feel the answer is much more simple, but one most people probably don't want to hear, maybe they just don't want to use her.

I know people use the comics as an example to show that Marvel doesn't care about her, but I would argue that would have to go to the writers of the books for choosing not to use her. Marvel has no problem releasing Renew Your Vows where she's a co-lead (with her face in the corner), and has no problem putting her on the front of covers and variant covers and dedicating several months to MJ themed variant covers. It's just clear Slott and Bendis didn't want to use her that much.

Same for the television series, I don't think they're going out of their way not to include her, there's just other characters they want to use instead. You can be disappointed, it's completely understandable, I think its a missed opportunity not to include her more often in things, but this isn't some big mission to keep her out of the spotlight.

The reason why she's in the PS4 game is simply because Insomniac wants to use her.

[Frontier]

I really don't believe there is some big conspiracy to keep MJ out of things. I feel the answer is much more simple, but one most people probably don't want to hear, maybe they just don't want to use her.

I know people use the comics as an example to show that Marvel doesn't care about her, but I would argue that would have to go to the writers of the books for choosing not to use her. Marvel has no problem releasing Renew Your Vows where she's a co-lead (with her face in the corner), and has no problem putting her on the front of covers and variant covers and dedicating several months to MJ themed variant covers. It's just clear Slott and Bendis didn't want to use her that much.

Same for the television series, I don't think they're going out of their way not to include her, there's just other characters they want to use instead. You can be disappointed, it's completely understandable, I think its a missed opportunity not to include her more often in things, but this isn't some big mission to keep her out of the spotlight.

The reason why she's in the PS4 game is simply because Insomniac wants to use her.

Well, I don't think we're arguing against a lack of interest on Marvel's part to do much with Mary Jane, because I certainly believe that's true, as well as a lack of investment in her as a character.

Certainly if you compare how they handle Gwen or her off-shoot it seems like more people are pumped or prone to using her then Mary Jane, for one reason or another.

Really, Mary Jane's only really lucked out when writers who care about her get to use her, whether it be Bendis, Conway, or the Insomniac team. I'd hate to think what would happen to her without those guys.

[Inversed]

Well, I don't think we're arguing against a lack of interest on Marvel's part to do much with Mary Jane, because I certainly believe that's true, as well as a lack of investment in her as a character.

Certainly if you compare how they handle Gwen or her off-shoot it seems like more people are pumped or prone to using her then Mary Jane, for one reason or another.

Really, Mary Jane's only really lucked out when writers who care about her get to use her, whether it be Bendis, Conway, or the Insomniac team. I'd hate to think what would happen to her without those guys.

Spider-Gwen is also almost 4 years old, she's still very new, so it makes sense why they would want to go for the fan-favourite who gets the most amount of attention currently. Also don't forget, her merchandise sells very well.

It's the same as pretty much any supporting character in all of comics, it all rests on how much the writers want to use them. So we'll just see how much Spencer and Zdarsky want to use of her. We know she is involved in Spencer's #1, and since the Teresa arc is about to end soon in Spectacular, anything can happen in the future.

And don't forget Houser's been doing a great job too, the cruise issue was incredibly sweet.

[Frontier]

Spider-Gwen is also almost 4 years old, she's still very new, so it makes sense why they would want to go for the fan-favourite who gets the most amount of attention currently. Also don't forget, her merchandise sells very well.

Well, I think there's something to be said for respecting a classic characters tenure alongside the new blood or the "hot new thing."

I'm not denying Spider-Gwen's popularity, or how Marvel capitalizes on that, but I see no reason that should mean a lack of Mary Jane. It's a different story if we're talking a more traditional Gwen Stacy, but not by much.

It's the same as pretty much any supporting character in all of comics, it all rests on how much the writers want to use them. So we'll just see how much Spencer and Zdarsky want to use of her. We know she is involved in Spencer's #1, and since the Teresa arc is about to end soon in Spectacular, anything can happen in the future.

I get that, but I think there should be the expectation that Mary Jane should be used more then she is.

And don't forget Houser's been doing a great job too, the cruise issue was incredibly sweet.

Agreed.

I was going to mention Houser, but because she inherited RYV I went with writers/artists who deliberately went into something intending to elevate Mary Jane's role (emphasis on "intended" in Bendis' case), though I think Houser writing Mary Jane well is also worthy of praise .

[The Dying Detective]

Technically, Marvel makes nothing from the Sony movies. The current deal lets Marvel use Spider-Man in movies they make for themselves/Disney (like Captain America: Civil War and Avengers: Infinity War) and, what was it, Marvel gets all the merchandise money, and in return, Marvel makes the live-action Spider-Man movies for Sony.

I don't know what kind of deal is in place for the PS4 game. All I know is Marvel asked Sony to make a top of the line Marvel game, and Spider-Man PS4 is what came out of that agreement.

So Marvel is making the Venom movie and Black White for Sony? And a percentage of the money made from the movies involving Spider-Man go to Sony? Well either way Marvel doesn't want to pair Peter with Michelle/'MJ' and from Feige's words they only want to try to remind people of Mary Jane and Peter's dynamic not create an actual romance. But if Michelle continues to have no real role other than to make sarcastic quips they better reconsider.

[Kevinroc]

So Marvel is making the Venom movie and Black White for Sony? And a percentage of the money made from the movies involving Spider-Man go to Sony? Well either way Marvel doesn't want to pair Peter with Michelle/'MJ' and from Feige's words they only want to try to remind people of Mary Jane and Peter's dynamic not create an actual romance. But if Michelle continues to have no real role other than to make sarcastic quips they better reconsider.

No, they just make Spider-Man movies. Venom or any other such movies are not made by Marvel. And the animated Miles Morales movie also is not made by Marvel. If Sony were to make an animated Peter Parker movie, that would not be Marvel's either.

Sony gets all the money from the Spider-Man movies that Marvel makes for them. And Marvel gets all the merchandising money.

My point is that leaning on the "MJ" moniker is pointless if people don't understand why the "MJ" moniker is important to Spider-Man at all.

[The Dying Detective]

No, they just make Spider-Man movies. Venom or any other such movies are not made by Marvel. And the animated Miles Morales movie also is not made by Marvel. If Sony were to make an animated Peter Parker movie, that would not be Marvel's either.

Sony gets all the money from the Spider-Man movies that Marvel makes for them. And Marvel gets all the merchandising money.

My point is that leaning on the "MJ" moniker is pointless if people don't understand why the "MJ" moniker is important to Spider-Man at all.

So in return for being allowed to use Spider-Man and his cast of character Marvel lets Sony have the movie profits while they get the merchandise profits either way they both win. And Marvel just keeps Peter and Mary Jane apart in comics and the movie just commits themselves to doing lip service to their relationship. That doesn't sound good for Mchelle's character if they aren't going to really allow her to do much just like the real Mary Jane.